Spin Class No No's

[alpinerabbit]

Only a cyclist can teach a good spin class. For cyclists anyway.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=pC-O6uPQZUQ
But what's with Jonny G's sectarianism. people keep "whooping" that gives me the goosebumps.

and what's with the weaving when out of the saddle. Oh and what's with the ankle position at 5:56....

[Dogmama]

I still get instructors who spin at super fast cadences while standing. They call it running. I call it death-to-the-knees.

Jen, thanks for the information.

[Resi]

Only a cyclist can teach a good spin class. For cyclists anyway.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=pC-O6uPQZUQ
But what's with Jonny G's sectarianism. people keep "whooping" that gives me the goosebumps.

and what's with the weaving when out of the saddle. Oh and what's with the ankle position at 5:56....

I do agree with you, but I am sure there are some noncyclists which are good spininstructor...they understand the concept...but what do I say, what concept... and yes there are lots of dangerous things they do on this bikes, but which sport is not dangerous, people have to know they're body...

Resi

[aicabsolut]

Jump Starts: there's lots of names for this, but it's starting at a high resistance from a total stand still, and then sprinting as hard as you can go. This could potentially be helpful for racers and power riders, but not for your general Spin class. The problem is these indoor bikes aren't designed for this kind of torque, and those crank arms can break. True story: an instructor I know told me of a large guy in class who was powering on his pedals, the crank broke, and it ended up embedded IN his calf.... ugh! I had a chain break on me one time while in a standing climb and I thank my lucky stars I wasn't injured...imagine doing something high powered like this and "crack"!

I agree with these points, but I wanted to highlight this one.

This is a good drill for racers on a bike outdoors (called standing starts usually). They aren't always done in a huge gear to start, but they often are. And guess what, they often hurt people's knees! Even with all the flex and swaying of the bike laterally under load, it's still hard. Doing this on a spin bike seems pointless. Plus, sprinting on a spin bike is so *easy* compared to sprinting on a road bike. There are other ways to work on power. Even doing a workout at Tempo works on strength with less stress on the joints.

Other peeves I have with some instructors:

Sprinting in reverse. One instructor I've had tells the class to crank up the resistance while standing and *then* sit and sprint. Um, what? No. Start bringing leg speed up while seated. Increase resistance as you increase leg speed to stay stable. Then if this gets tough at the end of the interval, stand and power it out. Or, increase resistance while standing for the final push. This is how you'd sprint in a race, right? The other method is backwards. This helps people actually sprint under resistance and so then more people could benefit from the high cadence work. Ok, yeah, spinning really high cadences with a flywheel generally doesn't do much. But if you can crank out the power (by increasing resistance without stressing joints or slowing down/messing up the pedal stroke), sprint intervals on a spin bike are quite good in improving aerobic recovery time and somewhat improves muscle recovery time. IMO, it can be a better strength builder for the quads than "climbing" on a spin bike. Still, it is not the same as doing intervals on the road bike.

I find "running" to be a good way to work on your pedal stroke. However, it's got to be done right, and really shouldn't be a harder interval like most instructors make it. Rather, it should just be a way to give your butt a break for a minute and working out some kinks. Riding a spin bike seems to be so much more quads-intensive, that standing under lighter resistance (under control with a fast cadence) can be a good way to stretch out and get comfortable. Just like standing periodically on a long ride when not climbing.

I also don't like how instructors will tell you to start a set at 60% of max perceived rate of exertion and then expect you to turn up the resistance a gazillion times yet only wind up at maybe 80% by the end. There are other inconsistencies with what "levels" they want you to be experiencing, and it seems each instructor has his/her own scale. There are other ways to describe where you want the class to be in terms of resistance and HR and effort that makes more sense with the rest of the workout.

[Zeek]

Other peeves I have with some instructors:

Sprinting in reverse. One instructor I've had tells the class to crank up the resistance while standing and *then* sit and sprint. Um, what? No. Start bringing leg speed up while seated. Increase resistance as you increase leg speed to stay stable. Then if this gets tough at the end of the interval, stand and power it out. Or, increase resistance while standing for the final push. This is how you'd sprint in a race, right? The other method is backwards. This helps people actually sprint under resistance and so then more people could benefit from the high cadence work. Ok, yeah, spinning really high cadences with a flywheel generally doesn't do much. But if you can crank out the power (by increasing resistance without stressing joints or slowing down/messing up the pedal stroke), sprint intervals on a spin bike are quite good in improving aerobic recovery time and somewhat improves muscle recovery time. IMO, it can be a better strength builder for the quads than "climbing" on a spin bike. Still, it is not the same as doing intervals on the road bike.

I find "running" to be a good way to work on your pedal stroke. However, it's got to be done right, and really shouldn't be a harder interval like most instructors make it. Rather, it should just be a way to give your butt a break for a minute and working out some kinks. Riding a spin bike seems to be so much more quads-intensive, that standing under lighter resistance (under control with a fast cadence) can be a good way to stretch out and get comfortable. Just like standing periodically on a long ride when not climbing.

I also don't like how instructors will tell you to start a set at 60% of max perceived rate of exertion and then expect you to turn up the resistance a gazillion times yet only wind up at maybe 80% by the end. There are other inconsistencies with what "levels" they want you to be experiencing, and it seems each instructor has his/her own scale. There are other ways to describe where you want the class to be in terms of resistance and HR and effort that makes more sense with the rest of the workout.

Sounds like you have (unfortunately) been exposed to some crazy instructors. Have you ever thought about becoming certified to teach? Mad Dogg could use more good instructors.

[aicabsolut]

I've had some good instructors too but a few of them drive me batty. I pretty much go in just to have access to a bike in bad weather in a different environment with different tunes, and pretty much do my own thing when the instructions get crazy.

I really wouldn't mind getting certified and teaching part time. My equestrian trainer says I'm a really good teacher when I help her out with lessons. I'm sure I could figure out spinning. I've never seriously looked into what certification would entail, though.

[bounceswoosh]

I did spin classes for a while at the Y, but stopped. My knees didn't like it; never figured out it if it was the resistance from the wheel, or maybe the angle at which the pedals forced me to clip in.

It does seem like a neat way to work on aerobics over the winter, but now I've discovered indoor soccer, and I find that a lot more fun (no offense to anyone who likes spinning =))

I did kind of like having spin classes that were somewhat tied to a musical selection, but then half the songs I'd be like "this is a dumb song. I could choose such a better set ..."

[Zeek]

Monique you may have been set up on the bike incorrectly. A correct set up makes a world of difference.

[bounceswoosh]

I'm sure that's true, since I set it up myself ...

[Julibird]

I did spin classes for a while at the Y, but stopped. My knees didn't like it; never figured out it if it was the resistance from the wheel, or maybe the angle at which the pedals forced me to clip in.

Other than bike setup, as Zeek suggested, another possible problem I've experienced is when old bikes have crank arms that are warped. Yes, it can and does happen! Those suckers hurt my knees!

Switching to a cleat with a little more float helped too (the shiny SPD - not the one directional kind).

[vember]

Thanks Jennifer and hello all.

I've been researching and reading as much as possible, taking spin classes and I have a pretty good idea how my body is suppose to be/sit/feel on a road bike but no exp. with a spin bike.

To my surprise, out of all the instructors I had classes with, only a hand full actually road their bike and had my attention the entire class. The bad ones, either hovered over their bike in a standing position and gave instructions or pedaled like a turtle "on drugs" for the duration of the class. Early on, I had my bike set up wrong, yet, they (the bad ones) never said a word or corrected me on my form or technique. Later, corrected by a master trainer at a different club on my bike setup, I was APPALLED that some clubs would keep bad instructor on their payroll. GUESS WHAT? I realized, hiring them as "independent contractors", the HC saves major $$$, but their members get the short end of the stick. I didn't like what I saw (point's you've mentioned) and other member's I spoke too felt the same way about bad instructors. The group fitness coord was the worst of the bunch, yet, she gets a weekly paycheck and does the hiring and firing.

The problem, anyone with a credit card will be certified thru MDA simply by submitting a payment of $300.++++ and attending a 8-9hr workshop.

Perhaps, but she asked what to do and not to do if her instructor tells her to do something. I believe that if someone is told not to do something, there needs to be justification why not. Maybe for some students who read this, some lightbulbs will go off as a result and they'll change what they're doing - that's a good thing. Maybe they love the "burn" they get from isolations or squats but always wondered whether that pain in the back or knees made it worth the risk.

Also, maybe someone will want to print this out and give it to their instructor if he/she does a lot of contraindicated moves - maybe his/her classes will become safer. If only one instructor or spin student out there benefits from this, then I'm grateful!

Or maybe it's overload...

I'm open to any questions about any of these moves.

[Resi]

Thanks Jennifer and hello all.

I've been researching and reading as much as possible, taking spin classes and I have a pretty good idea how my body is suppose to be/sit/feel on a road bike but no exp. with a spin bike.

To my surprise, out of all the instructors I had classes with, only a hand full actually road their bike and had my attention the entire class. The bad ones, either hovered over their bike in a standing position and gave instructions or pedaled like a turtle "on drugs" for the duration of the class. Early on, I had my bike set up wrong, yet, they (the bad ones) never said a word or corrected me on my form or technique. Later, corrected by a master trainer at a different club on my bike setup, I was APPALLED that some clubs would keep bad instructor on their payroll. GUESS WHAT? I realized, hiring them as "independent contractors", the HC saves major $$$, but their members get the short end of the stick. I didn't like what I saw (point's you've mentioned) and other member's I spoke too felt the same way about bad instructors. The group fitness coord was the worst of the bunch, yet, she gets a weekly paycheck and does the hiring and firing.

The problem, anyone with a credit card will be certified thru MDA simply by submitting a payment of $300.++++ and attending a 8-9hr workshop.

I am a road- and mountain biker and I also attend the spin classes since 6 years, but this thread says it all... yes there are not many good instructors...
I had the impression, that I am the only one which speaks up in the gym I go to. Many people talk behind the instructors back how bad the classes are ... why don't they complain, maybe something will change? Like I said before, I have /had a spin instructor friend, I talked about this topic, ha now she does not talk to me anymore... they just don't get it... There are just no certification rule/requirement... so every ... can become a spin instructor...

I hope this will change

Resi

[Zeek]

I believe as you do. The number of lousy instructors far outweighs the number of good instructors. You are very lucky if you have a good spinning instructor in your area. Again, there are lousy ones around where I am. I am an outdoor cyclist and I spin in the winter months. I became certified because I just couldn't take it any more. I keep my education current, I read read read and I try to be bring the best indoor cycling class that I can, mimicking only the realistic moves on the bike (flat road and climb, in and out of the saddle). Nothing fancy, but challenging and fun (and SAFE). That's all it was ever supposed to be. Others took it to the extreme and ruined it, in many cases.

[Dogmama]

Years ago, I had an instructor who was strictly Mad Dogg. Used visualization, focus, safe moves, etc. Everybody thought she was really weird.

Now, they have Reaction Cycling (Bally's). One of the most popular instructors has people sprinting hard after a 5 minute warm up. People line up to get in his class.

My point is - as cyclists we know contraindicated moves because we've spent long hours on the bike. The normal exerciser wants to burn as many calories as possible. Most of these people are mid 30's. Maybe they have aches & pains due to bad form, bike fit, etc. but are not aware that they don't have to endure discomfort.

I watch trainers take brand new middle aged exercisers to failure on weight equipment. I just shudder to think what is happening with their tendons & ligaments.

Just like anything else - caveat emptor. Let the buyer beware.

[Julibird]

Years ago, I had an instructor who was strictly Mad Dogg. Used visualization, focus, safe moves, etc. Everybody thought she was really weird.

Now, they have Reaction Cycling (Bally's). One of the most popular instructors has people sprinting hard after a 5 minute warm up. People line up to get in his class.

Classic. The bottom line for management is "is the room filled - every bike with a person sitting on it?" It's not "Are these classes taught correctly?"

This is as much (or more) to blame for the preponderance of bad teaching as anything. People think that sprinting and suffering after the first 5 minutes means that that is a great class.

That means that many instructors who know better, teach these sort of classes to keep their numbers up and keep their jobs. Can't blame Madd Dog or Johnny G for that.