Advice please: wage negotiation

[LBTC]

Thank you for the good ideas and tips. Here is what I have done so far.

My reply this morning was:

Good morning,

I am pleased that we will continue this discussion. :-)

In order for me to make a fair comparison to my current situation, please let me know the types of coverage that are provided in the benefit package, the cost to the employee for that coverage, your pension or RRSP plan, the vacation benefit that you are proposing, and any other items that you intend to include in the compensation package. I'll be interested to see the similarities and differences, and will be able to adjust my salary requirements accordingly.

Thank you in advance,

Yes, I included the smiley face because I am that kind of person. They should know that.

I have also sent a query to our benefits department here so that I know how our defined benefit pension plan works - it was introduced a few years ago, and I don't remember the $/year formula; and I have sent a query to my investment guy to see if he can tell me how much more I'd need to invest each year to make up for the loss of said pension.

I'll also do a full printout of my medical benefits so that I'll be able to compare directly.

I am not in a position to take a pay cut at all. DH did just 2 years ago and he's still at only about 70% of what he was making before; and it costs way more to live here - I think our housing costs have doubled. So, even a few K less per year would be painful. Besides, I've been doing administrative work for 20 years, have lots of variety in my experience, and would be playing quite a strategic role with this company - I think it makes sense for this to be a step forward not backwards.

So, now I wait. And soon I will crunch numbers.

If you have any more ideas, thoughts, or plans that I should consider, please let me know!

Hugs and butterflies,
~T~

[vmax]

Several months ago I changed jobs and was actually recruited by the company that I now work for. I did, however, negotiate several items .

Keep in mind that most things are negotiable -- I actually believe that everything is negotiable (also depends on the position) and it never ever hurts to negotiate. Remember, the worst you can be told is "No" but at least you asked or negotiated something that you can live with. Also, it's much better to have all the information/numbers in front of you prior to making a final decision.

For the new position that I'm now in, I did a spreadsheet (it was very easy to put together) and compared all the benefits (medical, dental, pension, etc.) and salary although I did get a subtantial increase in salary by just changing companies. For healthcare, I compared my out of pocket cost with what the company was putting in. I'm divorced and responsible for my son's health care costs as well. For me, its very important to have good coverage and, without it, you could end up with a huge medical bill. I also compared pension plans which is a very important item. I tried to distance myself from making any decision, even though the new position looked attractive, to keep me focused on the whole picture.

In terms of vacation, for me, my salary pays the bills and that is what future raises are based on so I'd rather start with a good salary and go up from there. Certainly find out what you will start out with (for vacation) and ask if that will increase at any time, given length of employment, etc. What is the plan for future raises, compensation, etc.?

Bonuses are gravy so don't count on it until its "in the bank". If this is a new company, it could be a while before you see some healthy bonus checks.

In terms of negotiating salary, I've always provided potential employers with a "healthy" range and I shoot high, given what I know of the market in that profession. You need to ask for a salary that is in line with the market so you may want to check that out beforehand. Pricing yourself out of the position is never a good option -- its better to be open to future raises.

Opportunities for growth with the company -- if you are interested in staying there a while ask about other potential opportunities that may come up, so they know you are interested in taking on a new role/responsibilities.

Personally, I feel that it is important to look at all the pieces of a new position and salary is only one item, although it is important.

Good Luck with your deicision,

- Vivian, MN

[LBTC]

Thanks for the ideas, V! A spreadsheet! Of course! That was exactly my plan. I'll run a few what-if scenarios at different salary amounts, considering all of the other quantifiable aspects, and will figure out my bottom line and my asking - probably between 5% and 10% above my bottome line.

I know that there is a benefits package that is part funded by the employees, so I've asked for details to try to compare to my fully funded plan. I know which parts of the plan I use a lot, and which I would not feel safe without, and there are others that have a value, but I could maybe go without. I don't think there is a pension plan, so I will need to gain more salary to invest for my retirement. Vacation time *is* important to me, but I can understand a slight decrease if I know when it will increase again.

It's a small but well established company that is in the midst of a growth spurt that is likely to lead it to be a larger company. Part of the reason for the restructuring is to make it easier for growth to happen, and part of the need for someone like me is to improve their systems and processes to make growth easier; and to manage the new tools involved in that (web based database, and the like). They have already indicated room for advancement within the company. I know that I'm at the high end of what administrative assistants make, but the management of technology and the strategic influence in the marketing and reporting increases my value beyond the average admin anyway.

These guys are kind of wheeler dealers, so I know that we'll be bargaining and I need to come in at a higher value than I"m willing to take.

I'll keep you posted!
Thanks!
~T~

[blueskies]

Part of the reason for the restructuring is to make it easier for growth to happen, and part of the need for someone like me is to improve their systems and processes to make growth easier; and to manage the new tools involved in that (web based database, and the like). They have already indicated room for advancement within the company. I know that I'm at the high end of what administrative assistants make, but the management of technology and the strategic influence in the marketing and reporting increases my value beyond the average admin anyway.

You might also consider looking at other terms, beyond administrative assistant, to use when discussing this job... sounds like you might have grown beyond that as a job title.

[Mr. Bloom]

I am not in a position to take a pay cut at all. DH did just 2 years ago and he's still at only about 70% of what he was making before; and it costs way more to live here - I think our housing costs have doubled.

If this is true...I wouldn't ponder the move unless you have some motivating factor (like running away from something bad, for instance).

Here's why:

• it's rare that smaller companies can match the aggregate compensation package of large ones; people tend to work for small companies for other reasons
• there's more risk in small companies (although I don't recall your current industy...)
• if they're calling it an AA position, but describing something else...well, it just doesn't sound right...AA's don't redesign processes, they type the new process up for the folks who design it. (Don't get me wrong, I have four AA's and they're integral, but in my view, they're not strategic in their focus...but an outstanding AA is worth their weight in gold but rarely gets the credit they're due)
• benefits are often way underestimated as to their real value...and the long term value of a pension plan is huge, even if distant...

Sounds like you're doing a great job at negotiating in a constructive way, and I hope it works out. But, I think once you complete this worksheet, it's going to say "stay"...

Good Luck

You might also consider looking at other terms, beyond administrative assistant, to use when discussing this job... sounds like you might have grown beyond that as a job title.

I just read this...and there's a lot of merit to what blueskies is saying...

[Running Mommy]

Funny, I was reading down the replies thinking... "where is mr. silver, this is the perfect thread for him"....
And low and behold, he had chimed in. I agree w/him. If you can't take the risk of a potential pay cut, I would stay.

[Mr. Bloom]

Funny, I was reading down the replies thinking... "where is mr. silver, this is the perfect thread for him"....
And low and behold, he had chimed in. I agree w/him. If you can't take the risk of a potential pay cut, I would stay.

Thanks for thinking of me I've been swamped and mentally fragged beyond measure lately...so I've been scarce...

[LBTC]

Thank you, Mr. S, I was hoping to hear from you!

Initially, the reason I wanted to leave: horrible boss. That has changed so that I currently have a good boss, but by June I will be working for both of them. Yuk. One of the partners at the new firm, which is a small local office, but has many people placed throughout Canada and the US, is a guy I used to work with. I know I can work for him.

Have you heard of the Canadian Forest Industry? That's what this larger company I work for is in. I'm seeing a few signs that there could be more "right sizing" coming. Frightening, but I've been with the company for 12 years, so they've got to pony up bucks if they drop the hammer. Also, I've been on a great pension plan for 10 of those 12 years - they changed it 2 years back - so the pension is important, but it's not as critical as it might be for some.

The way I see it, I'll ask for their numbers, compare them to my numbers, have an in person meeting with them as soon as possible, and give them my counter offer. I'll see the reaction then and we'll see if we can settle.

I really like the idea of changing the job title. Any suggestions?

Add to all this that my grandmother passed away a couple of hours ago. A whole new thing to deal with all at the same time. That's life, right?

Thanks for all of your ideas and thoughts. Let me know if there's more you can tell me.

Hugs and butterflies,
~T~

[Deborajen]

I really like the idea of changing the job title. Any suggestions?

What would the job title be if it were a male employee? Titles are important to men - or at least they definitely have been everywhere I've worked. Get away from the word "assistant." Maybe "analyst," "specialist," or even "technician" emphasizes skill and expertise. Watered down titles encourage lower compensation, and they're dead weight on a resume.

Deb

[Grog]

Manager
Expert
Analyst
Coordinator
Director

Good luck LBTC. I agree that you have earned to graduate above the eternal AA.

[Mr. Bloom]

Initially, the reason I wanted to leave: horrible boss. That has changed so that I currently have a good boss, but by June I will be working for both of them. Yuk.

That's motivation. I've adhered to a simple rule in 23 years of work. My priorities to professional happiness are in this order:
1) Who I work for - do I respect & trust them, can I follow them
2) Who I work with - can we work well together, enjoy our environment, be a team
3) What I do - is it enjoyable, challenging, etc

There's 20 other things that are important to me (money included), but I find if these three things are in place, everything else will follow.

Maybe this is why I've only had three different employers in 23 years... I actually got fired from my last job because I refused to sign a non-compete agreement...why? because I didn't trust the guys I worked for and refused to be permanently yoked to them...

Follow your heart and your gut...you'll make the right choice

[Mr. Bloom]

Did anything happen?