back to the cars thread

[Eden]

We have considered the Dodge caravan, too, but i really want something LITTLER.

We were down at SouthCenter the other day so we checked out the new Smart Car dealership. Though I'm dissapointed that the US versions of this car *do not* have the high efficiency Mercedez Benz engines in them, nor do they have the 60 mpg diesel option here, they still do get 30 mpg city and you can get a really sweet looking rear mounted bike rack that takes the bikes with both wheels on and is not very high off the ground (so mounting would be easy).

[Thorn]

We were down at SouthCenter the other day so we checked out the new Smart Car dealership. Though I'm dissapointed that the US versions of this car *do not* have the high efficiency Mercedez Benz engines in them, nor do they have the 60 mpg diesel option here, they still do get 30 mpg city

Wait a minute....30mpg city? My Civic Hatch beat that 15 years ago. So, if they don't have the high efficiency engine, why buy one? Looks alone? Sigh...perhaps, when they imported it the should have renamed it from the "Smart Car" to the "Just Average, but Cute". Does the international market really think Americans are all superficial, no substance?

[KnottedYet]

Wait a minute....30mpg city? My Civic Hatch beat that 15 years ago. So, if they don't have the high efficiency engine, why buy one? Looks alone? Sigh...perhaps, when they imported it the should have renamed it from the "Smart Car" to the "Just Average, but Cute". Does the international market really think Americans are all superficial, no substance?

I don't think it's the international market keeping the fuel efficient goodies from coming in. We also have trouble getting the efficient engines in our "own" cars. (we can't get the Ford Focus diesel that's so popular in Europe, no matter how much my dealer tried.) Too many protections for the oil lobby gangs right here in the US keeping the goodies out.

[mtbdarby]

Mimi - I could stand my bikes up in my Honda Pilot but it only got low 20's for mileage. Right now I'm looking at an '04 Pontiac Aztek AWD which gets high 20's. I haven't tried to fit my bike in it but the back seats fold down and the trunk is deep so I doubt I'd have a problem either way. Decisions, decisions.

How long will it take for the adjuster to get back to me on my vehicle?? I want to get this cleared up so I can get another car.

[mimitabby]

I love smart cars! the reason why they had to "dumb them down" so to speak was because of our fuel emission standards. The wise folks that imported them also figured they'd make more money selling the more luxurious models of the Smart cars than they would by selling the economical ones (like the ones they sell in Canada!!!) So it's a pretty pricy little car. Our Canadian neighbors have access to a much nicer range of vehicles.

As Thorn said, Honda Civic had that beat 15 years ago.
Yes, that's MY car, a 1991 Honda Civic. (the one that just got smushed) It gets GREAT mileage. Even if I eliminate the requirement of being big enough to comfortably fit bikes, it is really hard to find a replacement for it for under $15,000!!!!

[KnottedYet]

When I was with my ex in Germany a few years ago, her cousin was talking about how they have to upgrade the emissions systems in US cars that come in to Germany. (He wanted to import a new Ford something-or-another) He's an engineer, so I believed him. I'd heard the thing about how we can't get fuel efficient cars here because of the emissions, too... but from the man-on-the-street it sounds like they're more strict there than here.

The Ford Model T got 25 mpg. I can't believe that a hundred years later we can't do much much better! (Hey, somebody link the article in the Seattle Times last week about the car made for a competition in 1970's that got 376 mpg and would get 174 mpg when street legal for 4 passengers)

Edit: I just searched the Times and can't find it...

[7rider]

I don't think it's the oil lobby that keeps diesels out of the U.S.
I think it's a factor of a few things:
1. Americans have awful memories of those loud, stinking, smoke belching diesels of the early '80s and can't get past that. My friend's parents had 2 Oldsmobile diesels in the early 80s...and I remember how dreadful those things were...not to mention having to go out early in the morning on a freezing morning to warm up the glow plugs just so you could start the thing up. Not very practical.
2. Environmental restrictions. Only more recent diesels are clean enough.
3. Availability of diesel at the pump. I could be wrong, but I don't think every corner gas station has diesel...but yeah, that is changing.
4. Marketing. The need to get folks beyond 1-3.
But, jeez....you'd think that with the junk-food scarfing American public...tell them that the exhaust of bio-diesel smells like french fries vs. well..diesel...you'd think they'd be breaking down the doors to get one.
I had a 1990 Civic, and that thing got 40 mpg on the highway. The 5-speed helps, of course, but yeah...how come we can't do better nearly 20 years later??

[KnottedYet]

I test drove a Volkswagen Golf/Rabbit TDI (diesel). Loved the torque produced by that engine! Zoomed up a hill that my old car couldn't manage above a walking pace.

Wasn't quite roomy enough for a bike *and* stuff, and my mechanic said that VW still required a lot of repairs. But he loved the 4 he owned. (these car guys, man, they have cars like we have bikes!)

My SIL gets 54 mpg with biodiesel in her VW Jetta. I think she said she gets mid-40's with dino-diesel. No room for a bike in that though, unless in the back seat.

If it gets to the US, I gotta check out one of these: http://www.popularmechanics.com/blog...s/4219904.html Volkswagen Polo, 70 mpg.

[OakLeaf]

Does the ... market really think Americans are all superficial, no substance?

Don't get me started. It turns out, my Prius even falls into that category, and they sure sucked me right in. My 1983 Nissan Sentra got nearly as good mileage.... without 100+ lbs of lead that will need to be disposed of/recycled at some point in the car's life.

[Thorn]

Don't get me started. It turns out, my Prius even falls into that category, and they sure sucked me right in. My 1983 Nissan Sentra got nearly as good mileage.... without 100+ lbs of lead that will need to be disposed of/recycled at some point in the car's life.

Really? Sorry to hear that. I get pretty good mileage in the Prius...summertime is around 58mpg on my 40 mile commute (1/2 60mph freeway; 1/2 35mph streets). But, this winter with our "artic weather patterns", I'm getting around 45mpg because it is just too cold for the gas engine to turn off.

Of course, I got a relatively early V2 Prius. I heard that they started adding bells and whistles such that gas mileage dropped.

[OakLeaf]

It has a lot to do with the kind of driving one does I'm sure. I know people who get much better mileage in their ... oh here's that word again. Priuses? Prii? Prioi? (I prefer the latter even though it ought to go with a singular Prios, not Prius )

Up north it's a rural commute. Accelerate to highway speed, go two miles, come to a redlight and stop; repeat x 3. Definite gas mileage killer. Down south, use the car once or twice a week so the battery doesn't stay topped up.

Unfortunately I have a suspicion that the Prius does best in the kind of daily commute where SOMEONE SHOULDN'T BE DRIVING A DANGED CAR AT ALL because it's stop and go urban traffic and you should just take the bus, or the train. Or ride your bike.

... Did I say don't get me started?

PS are you going by the auto-calculation of the gas mileage, or figuring it yourself? It turns out that my gas mileage doesn't drop near as much in cold weather as the car thinks it does. The fuel tank is a rubber bladder, to reduce evaporative emissions, but it gets much stiffer in the cold, and it throws off the auto-calculations.

[Thorn]

I kept track of mpg using the gallons and miles method early on its life, but then, after learning about the bladder, gave up. The car's values were close enough, but when good old fickle WI winter weather hit, it became impossible. I could fill up when it was 0F and then the next time I needed a fill up it would be 40F. So, I've just come to rely on its reported mileage. Probably wrong, but it is all relative.

Best mileage? Oh, I think it is worse than you have (or is what you mean)....stop and go freeway traffic. If I screw up my departure from work and end up in freeway rush hour, I can easily exceed 70mpg on that segment. Unlike urban driving, you don't have any rough accelerations--just gentle up to speed (if it is <34mph then it is all electric) and coasting to recoup the battery. I've gone 20 minutes on electric.

Thankfully, I only hit that situation once a month or so. Hard to think they built such an interesting piece of engineering for a situation you shouldn't be in in the first place.

[tulip]

It has a lot to do with the kind of driving one does I'm sure. I know people who get much better mileage in their ... oh here's that word again. Priuses? Prii? Prioi? (I prefer the latter even though it ought to go with a singular Prios, not Prius )

Up north it's a rural commute. Accelerate to highway speed, go two miles, come to a redlight and stop; repeat x 3. Definite gas mileage killer. Down south, use the car once or twice a week so the battery doesn't stay topped up.

Unfortunately I have a suspicion that the Prius does best in the kind of daily commute where SOMEONE SHOULDN'T BE DRIVING A DANGED CAR AT ALL because it's stop and go urban traffic and you should just take the bus, or the train. Or ride your bike.

... Did I say don't get me started?

WELL SAID!

[Tuckervill]

I drove a diesel Beetle for a couple of years before it got swept up by the streetsweeper.

It was quiet, not loud. It got 40 mpg, or better if I obeyed the speed limit, which I rarely did. It had heated seats. It started even when it was cold. In really cold climates, they put anti-gel agent in the diesel, so that helps, too. It did NOT like to run out of diesel!

There are lots of diesel pumps--no not on every corner, but if you know where to look you can always find one. Whenever I traveled (and I did cross country a lot), I would try to determine which predominant local company carried diesel in that state, and then make sure to look for those stations. Lots of time the diesel nozzles are on the same stand with the gas pump and if you aren't looking for them you won't notice them. And, you can always wait in line with the big rigs in a pinch (although, sometimes the nozzle dispenses really really fast and you might spill).

I could carry three bikes on a hitch mounted Yakima rack. I frequently took the back seat out, inserted a custom-made platform that leveled everything out, and loaded my gear onto that. If you just had one bike, you could put the back seat down and roll the bike in through the hatch. You could stack two bikes, probably.

I loved all 4 of my Beetles, but I think I loved the diesel best--because of the miles per gallon.

BTW: My Element got really good mileage when I was in Maine for a week last September. I think it had to do with Maine's 50 mph speed limits, though.

Karen