How do I tell a friend....

[AutumnBreez]

Aren't we the funniest group - we all focused on her abhorent treatment of the dog, not on the fact that she slaps her child!

You might be able to bring up the subject of that by turning it around to yourself and your children. "Hey, girlfriend, I would rather that my children don't see you slapping your daughter, so if you must do it, please do not do it in their, or my, presence - it bothers me too..." She might get the idea that it's just not an acceptable behavior, in public or private.

Good point...and point taken and will use the next time she starts to raise her hand at her or the animal, even if it is just to raise hand as to hit (threaten) sometimes it is just a threat, and more are the real deal.
Thank you...

[singletrackmind]

Animal abuse: where child abuse often begins....also you can't ignore the mother's upbringing-the way she deals with other living beings may be the only way she's ever known...

Hitting a child (in our culture) caries more of a stigma so I could see how pointing it out may help reduce it-in public at least- vs mentioning the animal's plight...re-education may be the only way to end or at least reduce it.

Mother Knows Best is an EXCELLENT suggestion, Snapdragen. Very easy to read and understand, a wonderful book.

[snapdragen]

There is one line in Mother Knows Best that has stuck with me (I'm paraphrasing) "Remember, your puppy is being the best puppy he/she knows how to be"

[Irulan]

find out if the local adult education offers parenting classes and get a brochure.Many times the base will offer stress and parenting classes for military families.

As much as it hurts tho, you may have to choose keeping a friend and myob or risk loosing a freind over this.

~irulan

[fixedgeargirl]

My favorite parenting resource is motherindotcom discussions. On the Gentle Discipline thread you can find lots of people agoninzing over this same thing (my friend hits her kids, what can I say?). It's terrible that this little girl is going through this. Hitting teaches fear and distrust of the one person in the world who is supposed to unconditionally protect this child. If you can be the one to broach this subject with her you will be doing this little girl a favor that will last her a lifetime.

[AutumnBreez]

My favorite parenting resource is motherindotcom discussions. On the Gentle Discipline thread you can find lots of people agoninzing over this same thing (my friend hits her kids, what can I say?). It's terrible that this little girl is going through this. Hitting teaches fear and distrust of the one person in the world who is supposed to unconditionally protect this child. If you can be the one to broach this subject with her you will be doing this little girl a favor that will last her a lifetime.

oh oh....this is a good thing.... I have a good idea for this.....
I am going to post some things on the fridge (seen on this mothering site), and give her a copy of the same and tell her, I found this and was excited because I have been searching for more and better ways to improve relationship with my boys, and thought she may like it too. Always room for improvements and adjustments
Here is the one that gave me idea to print for her :
http://www.mothering.com/community_t...unishment.html

[doc]

Wow. What a story. First of all, people usually do train/treat their pets the way they treat their children. She is unacceptable on both counts. In my opinion, it is NOT ok to say nothing. That is how children/women die of abuse. "It's not my problem" is the easiest approach. But as caring compassionate people who want the best for our children/world/earth we need to speak up about behaviors that are unacceptable.

That being said, the how is always the hardest. There are lots of possible approaches. You need to pick one that you're comfortable with. You can even start with "Hey, I've owned tons of dogs and am great at training. Let me show you how" Then, while training explain how hitting is destructive. Then you can gently mention how kids and pets learn the same way. Depending on your friendship and her motivations, she could really learn new parenting techniques from you.
You can enlist the help of clergy or school counselors as singletrack suggested. In the USA you can make an anonymous (but specific) tip to the child abuse hotline in your area. You can simply point out that the American Academy of Pediatrics recommends avoiding corporal punishment. And so on and so on.
Protect yourself emotionally. If she is just frazzled she may be thrilled with your help. If she is just uneducated, again she will be thrilled to learn something new and better. If she is just mean, you and the authorities need to know it.
Good Luck!!

[singletrackmind]

I LOVE the fridge posting and "sharing" idea! Sort of a 'hey, I'm interested in this and it's so cool I'd love to share it with you to try out too' thing.

Hope it works!

[Irulan]

I don't want to have conflict with friend, but how do I tell her she needs to stop these behaviors in order to have peace at home and hers and for the child's sake long term developement- ?

my two cents, in depth.
Most people don't want advice on how they are raising their kids, or dogs, and will most likely resent any advice or suggestions as an intrusion, invasion or worse. Unless she's truly asking for help, and truly willing to try or do something new, I suggest that you MYOB, no matter how much it hurts.

While you can set boundaries about certain things that might be accepted, (not sitting the dog) other boundaries might not be taken so well ( It makes me uncomfortable to watch you smack your kid)

You can certainly tell her to board the dog, and you can treat the child with dignity and kindness while the kid is at your house. That is the most you can do, IMO. If you feel it's child abuse, and not just obnoxious parenting, there are steps that can be taken.

I have friends that are frustrated parents, and are having troubles with their kid and their methods, but they just want to ***** about it, not really do anything different. I've also sacrificed friendships because I could not stand to be around how someone parented their kid.

two cents, as usual.

Irulan

[LBTC]

as usual, Irulan is right on the mark, IMO.

If it truly is abuse, get the authorities involved. If it's simply objectionable and poor, the liklihood of your advice being welcome is very low. Either way, there's a good chance the relationship could be ended....so be prepared for that, if you can!

Good luck!

Remember, it's her karma. Not yours.

Live mindfully and peacefully, the light is within you.

Namaste,
~T~

[AutumnBreez]

as usual, Irulan is right on the mark, IMO.

If it truly is abuse, get the authorities involved. If it's simply objectionable and poor, the liklihood of your advice being welcome is very low. Either way, there's a good chance the relationship could be ended....so be prepared for that, if you can!

Good luck!

Remember, it's her karma. Not yours.

Live mindfully and peacefully, the light is within you.

Namaste,
~T~

I do think it is frustration and ill parenting (obnoxious parenting-as Irulan put it- good choice of wording-or reckless) not abuse.
I also believe that my best option here is to try to silently present it to this young overly frustrated mother that there are some other methods to try (that may help reduce the behaviors that they both display), and continue my silent behavior modification during their visits to my house. The child responded well while her mom was away, mom even noticed something different about her daughter in past two days that she likes, she mentioned to me. Think that something may be done without appearing to be intrussive. If it does not work, then I will decide if I want to further the friendship, but I will know I did my best.

[doc]

Hmmm. I almost always agree with Irulan. But here I must strongly disagree. It has been in the news lately that the Vatican made a promise to the Nazi's that it would "MYOB" and not get involved in "politics".
Of course that wasn't politics, it was massive genocide 6,000,000 jews and 6,000,000 other "undersireables" were murdered. And the catholic church required all of its priests to MYOB.

That just isn't what life is about. Yes this woman may find your attempts at helping her intrusive. Or she may be thankful. But you are NOT reaching out because you are worried about the mom. You are helping the child.

I was just "minding my own business" is the absolute worst excuse for not helping another human being. Would you MYOB if you saw a cyclist fall who might be hurt? Well you KNOW this little girl is hurt. You don't know how much she is hurt physically, but you have definitely seen the psychological injuries that she and her dog express. You don't have to do everything everyone suggested, you just need to pick what you consider an appropriate type of door opening behavior/talk with the mom or other support people.

Autumn, I believe your reaching out is great. Especially since you managed to do it in a way that the mom is receptive. Kudos to you.

[Irulan]

MYOB - my perspective comes this -

accept the things I cannot change,
the courage to change the things I can
and the wisdom to know the difference.

Most people spend a lot of time and energy worry about how to change other's behavior, when that is the one thing that is usually out of our control and that we cannot make a difference in. It's much more effective to focus on our own part of things, and not beat our head against a wall trying to get someone else to do what we think they should be doing.

likening this to supporting the Nazis is kind of a stretch here, don't you think?

~I