terrified of hills

[OakLeaf]

I've been down some steep switchbacks that came up suddenly.

Um, no, the switchbacks were there the whole time, and if you were looking ahead you would've been able to complete your braking before entering the turn. What I said before about "seeing with your whole eyes" and looking where you're going.

Smilingcat's correct about the limits of traction, but the thing is that corners often collect sand, gravel, water or oil, so that all of a sudden you have a lot less traction to spare than you did a ten seconds ago when you decided to apply the brakes. So just like in a car or motorcycle, the best practice is to complete your braking before entering the turn, then accelerate through the apex to improve your rear wheel traction.

[RoadRaven]

Yeah, I brake into corners like I would with a car... do most or all of my braking BEFORE the corner so I am slowed enough to get around it with no brakes, or perhaps justa light feathering.
Do not want the tyres to lock up.

As for hills... going up them bothers me more than down - however, that wasn't the case when I first began. I was always a bit worried about downhills and would sit on the brakes to make sure I didn't go over 20-25kph.

My hands and forearms would be aching by the time I reached the bottom.

With time and confidence and really knowing my bikes I corner downhill at 30kph, and on straights I go downhill pushing 70kph.

But its confidence and practice that has done that (two years of it) so get to know your bike, your ability and your hills and it will become easy.

[DirtDiva]

That's exactly it: brake in and accelerate out. Just don't get to the corner at full speed and then brake unless you're really confident about your bike handling skills.

[mimitabby]

Um, no, the switchbacks were there the whole time, and if you were looking ahead you would've been able to complete your braking before entering the turn. What I said before about "seeing with your whole eyes" and looking where you're going.

Smilingcat, great advice, thanks
Oakleaf, there ARE hidden turns and I encountered some on Monday! they were very twisty and I could NOT see where they were going. I WAS looking ahead. but suffice to say, i had already slowed down because the folks ahead of me warned me!

[OakLeaf]

Smilingcat, great advice, thanks
Oakleaf, there ARE hidden turns and I encountered some on Monday! they were very twisty and I could NOT see where they were going. I WAS looking ahead. but suffice to say, i had already slowed down because the folks ahead of me warned me!

Well, okay, but that's another point. That's what they call the "fridge factor," i.e., if you come around a turn and in one lane there's a refrigerator and in the other lane there's the pickup truck that just dropped it, what are you going to do? The point being, never go faster than your visibility and your stopping/swerving distance (speed and traction) allow. Sometimes that just means not going all-out. Even when you know the road and you *do* know the lines through the turns, you don't know what's going to be in them.

[VeloVT]

But to be honest, you really should slow down before going into your turn, press down your weight on the outside pedal and the inside handle bar. This will give you more control in your turn. The old school had you point your inside knee in the direction of your turn.
smilingcat

Out of curiosity, why is this not recommended anymore? This summer I realized I needed to do some serious cornering practice, and I adopted the "pointing knee into turn" technique, and it really helped. I've since read on multiple occasions that it's better not to do this and to keep weight "centered over the bike." I subsequently tried to compare pointing knee vs not pointing knee (pressing down on inside of bar either way), and I still find that I corner more confidently at speed by pointing my knee in. Is this so bad?

thanks!

[velogirl]

Out of curiosity, why is this not recommended anymore? This summer I realized I needed to do some serious cornering practice, and I adopted the "pointing knee into turn" technique, and it really helped. I've since read on multiple occasions that it's better not to do this and to keep weight "centered over the bike." I subsequently tried to compare pointing knee vs not pointing knee (pressing down on inside of bar either way), and I still find that I corner more confidently at speed by pointing my knee in. Is this so bad?

thanks!

Liza, this is the method of counter-steering that I teach (pointing your knee into the turn). There is absolutely nothing wrong with it, and for many riders, it will simply open up their hip and point their core in the direction of the turn. and remember, where your core points, your bike will follow.

I've bandied the term counter-steering around a bit but no one has really described it. this is the skill you use to corner (90 degree turns or more) and also to descend switchbacks. it's a complex skill, and it can take years of dedicated practice to master it. but even learning the elements will help you be a more confident bike handler.

1. outside leg down and WEIGHTED (if turning right, this is the left leg). this means you're standing on the pedal, not seated heavy on the saddle.

2. hands are in the drops. this puts weight on the front of the bike (making it stable). your inside hand (right) pushes down on the bar (you cannot do this from the hoods). we don't steer with the bar (we steer with our core). we are not turning the bar either left or right, but rather pushing it down, which initiates a flicking motion (out then in).

3. lean the bike into the turn (right).

4. lean your body the opposite direction (left) so you're centering your weight back over the bike.

5. look through the turn with your entire head (not just your eyes). you are never looking down at the ground in front of your wheel.

6. point your inside knee (right) in the direction you want to turn.

7. use your outside thigh (left) to add directional momentum to the bike.




hope this helps!

[Trek420]

Let's see if I can keep this all in my head: head up and looking ahead where I want to go, hands in the drops, outside leg down and weighted, inside knee points where I want to go, and don't forget to breath

Like this?

http://velogirls.com/gallery/main.ph...g2_itemId=2352

[Zen]

Hey Trek, you got it! Except in that photo the women are pedaling through the turn. look at all those right legs down.

[velogirl]

yes and no. while the women are counter-steering, they're also pedalling through the turns so it changes the weight distribution a bit as well as how far you can lean without clipping a pedal.

I have a great photo that I use in my clinic handouts that I can't seem to find on my mac -- argh!

here's one, but it's kinda small. this was the chicane leading into the finishing chute of the vineman triathlon. speed at this point was about 22mph. you should be able to see all the elements described in the earlier post.

[Trek420]

Hey Trek, you got it! Except in that photo the women are pedaling through the turn. look at all those right legs down.

Dang those digital cameras and their delay, must have just missed it. The right leg was up a moment ago.

Here's another cornering racer, Erin O'Connel Cat 3 of Team Group Health (Eden's Team!)

[velogirl]

okay, the photo I want is in this page. I can't find the photo and I can't pull it out of the word doc. argh! but you're all welcome to have this page.

check out the photo on the right. because of the technicality of the turn, they weren't pedalling even though it's a crit.

if that attachment doesn't work, I give up.

[velogirl]

last piece of advice. if you want to master counter-steering, work on it in a nice, big, open parking lot somewhere. ride figure-eights. and then progress to swoopy roads that are flat and eventually to slight grades. finally, move onto steeper descents. if you can master this skill on the flats, you'll find your descents are a piece of cake.

btw, when I started riding, I had a paralyzing fear of descents. in my first year or so of riding I came to love fast, straight descents. it took a few more years before I felt comfortable with switchbacks. it's possible to feel safe and in control and to keep that voice in your head singing (instead of screaming).

Lorri

[velogirl]

keeping your body low will make a huge difference in your stability and mental comfort. as an analogy, I'll use and SUV and a sports car. if you drive an SUV, you know that you have to slow way down to turn corners (or risk rolling). in a sports car, you can just swoop through a corner and even accelerate on the exit. your bike will behave the same way (if you let it). so get low & sessy!

[Zen]

OK, now that we've got form covered how do I get rid of the fear of squirrels or groundhogs darting out into the road?