Serious Issue: Advice for Dealing with Alcoholics

[three]

Silver Family:

There is nothing harder than letting go when we want so badly to hang on and make everything better. The more we care, the harder it is to let go. I don't know how open you are to all the words of wisdom in these replies, but I hope that time will help you to see that you've already done all you can do.

People make their own decisions and it can be exceptionally hard to stand by when those decisions are self-destructive. But, that's what unconditional love and acceptance is. It is not a condoning of their behavior, or enabling. Rather, it is a recognition that you are the master of your own life and they are the masters of theirs. If you speak with an addiction specialist (which I hope you do, at some point - or take everyone's advice and check out an Al-Anon group) - you would see that no one and no single act can force sobriety. One must enter into sobriety, or any healthy lifestyle, on their own accord.

Try to think about other addictions: cigarettes or food, for example. If you take away someone's smokes, does it fix the problem? If you force someone to eat certain foods, does it deal with the real issue of their binging/overeating? No. One needs to be dedicated to stop smoking - or eating healthy, it can't be forced upon them. Or, think about something easier - more tangible - like deciding to make exercise a regular part of one's life. You can't force cycling or fitness onto anyone, right? Everyone has to take responsibility for their own lives and decide each day, each week, to get out there and put the time into staying healthy. With addiction, it is no different. The responsibility to change falls on the shoulders of the addict.

It is clear that your family is filled with love and wants nothing more than to care for your parents and see them well. But, if your parents aren't joining you in your efforts - you're setting yourself up for a great deal of pain...pain that no one in this forum wants to see you go through.

You can't control them. You can't convince them. And though they are aging, you are not responsible for their decisions. If they want to drink themselves to injury, that's their choice. If they want to make choices that result in being moved to a nursing home, it's their choices that got them there. All you can do is make sure they are cared for and safe - something you are doing a beautiful job of already. They will decide on a life of sobriety when they want it, if ever. Until then, all you can do is love them and take care of yourselves. There is nothing easy about the position you're in, but it is manageable - with the right resources.

I'm glad you came here for support and advice. I hope you continue to do so for as long as you need it. As for the advice, I have always believed we always know the answer to our own questions - deep inside. Advice is what we ask for when we know the answer, but don't want to admit it.

In time, the truth of how much (or how little) control you have in this will become more evident. As it does, and you grow to feel increasingly helpless - I hope you will put your energy into getting professional support for your family. You can't control your parents addiction, but you can control how you and your family handles it emotionally.

I wish you the best of luck with everything.

[salsabike]

So beautifully said, Spinswebs.

[RoadRaven]

Perfect crafted response, SW
Perfect

Silver family... kia kaha, kia manawanui

(Be strong, be of good heart - have faith in youselves)

[Mr. Bloom]

Thanks to all!

Every post here has provided thoughtful insight and perspective.

I'm considerbly more encouraged at 3AM today than at 3AM yesterday...(why am I not in bed????)

I think that I'm resolved that I can't let them drink themselves into a nursing home. The badgering from them over restricted drinking is better than the begging we'd receive to get them out of such a bleak place as a nursing home. Don't misunderstand - nursing homes do their best at caring, but it is simply too bleak to imagine as an acceptable solution.

To All with Kids: Please resolve right now that you won't become the children in your kids' life...

[Triskeliongirl]

I think that I'm resolved that I can't let them drink themselves into a nursing home. The badgering from them over restricted drinking is better than the begging we'd receive to get them out of such a bleak place as a nursing home. ...

I think this is a wise move. To keep the relationships more intact, can you let the docs or medical staff be the bad guys. Tell them that because of what the alcohol is doing to their health, their doctors are refusing to continue care for them in this facility if they continue to drink. Then tell them you support the doctors on this because the alternatives (nursing home care) are both unacceptable and would also not allow alcohol. Explain that medical facilities cannot care for patients with liver disease and diabetes that consume alcohol, its as simple as that. Its also the truth.

[maryellen]

i have a 94 year old father in a similar situation. not easy.

side note: In response to your aside about nursing homes and Medicare, typically Medicare does NOT pay for long term nursing home care. Usually the elder must "spend down" their assets until they qualify for Medicaid.

[mimitabby]

more from Mr Raleighdon who apologizes for butting in once again on a women's cycling forum:

alcoholism is one of the most destructive FAMILY diseases in our society. Unfortunately it isn't just the alcoholic that suffers from the disease and it is not only the alcoholic that lives in a state of denial. While family members don't cause the disease (i.e., it ain't their fault), neither do the alcoholics, themselves. None of us can control this disease, and yet we spend countless hours, days weeks, months and years of our lives attempting to do just that. "If I could just get mom or dad to cut down..." "If we could just....." Well, I can't, you can't and we can't. And the more we try, the sicker we become and at the same time, so does the alcoholic.

The bottom of every hole is that point at which someone throws down their shovel and stops digging. And it isn't just the alcoholic who needs to come to a point of surrender into a recovery process. For family members affected by this disease, the impact of years of the disease is a denial system that is every bit as well ingrained as that of the alcoholic, and must be broken through if there is any hope for recovery. The alcoholic may or may not get sober. That is a choice that they, and only they, can make. A great deal of assistance can be rendered in a lot of ways to help them get there, but unfortunately, a family member who is just as sick as them is not the person to render that assistance with love, respect, non-judmental decision making and dignity. If mom and/or dad are faced with assisted living, there are innumerable community services available that can give a lot of help, but as long as the adult children of alcholics think they can control mom and dad, the problem will continue to become worse not betterr.

I've often wondered why a man would spend so much of his energy surrounding himself with women in a site like Team Estrogen, and Mimitabby shares posts with me sometimes, seeking my thoughts on various issues. It astounds me that a purported well educated and balanced man would come to a women's bicycling group about his mom and dad's alcoholism. It just seems to me that this is about control and attention getting, both which are well defined and clearly identifiable symptoms of a highly evolved and advanced state of denial about ones' own problem. Don't bother to focus on the REAL PROBLEM, which is your own life, your own fears, your own self-doubt, your own low self esteem, your own losses, but deflect all of that outward, attempt to get others to endorse your bull$&#%) and fish for answers you can pick apart, re-work until they seem to agree with your own desires which are clouded with diseased thinking and find that one person out of twenty who will say, "Oh you poor thing. How hard it must be for you." and lock in on that sympathy.

Alcoholics and adult children of alcoholics neither deserve nor need pity. They already have enough of that themselves. All that self-pity is keeping them sick. What they need is a hand up, and good, professional help, support from their own community and to be treated with dignity and respect. Sometimes, that dignity and respect may mean making some tough choices, like saying goodbye. Respecting someone enough to quit endorsing their behavior. Respecting someone enough to allow them to live with the consequences of the life of bad decisions they have made. Respecting someone enough to say to them, I'm very sorry you feel that way, but I disagree and can't accept the guilt, shame and blame that you are trying to put on me."

Ánd as Forrest Gump might add, That's all I have to say about that.

[Crankin]

OK, I'm going to chime in here, despite the fact that I have no experience with alcoholism. In fact, I am only going to address the question Mr. Mimi posed: Why would a man ask advice on this topic from the women on TE?

I think (and I may be presumptive here), Mr. Silver asked because we are a community and he feels like he belongs to this community. We might disagree as to the answers to this problem, which is a tough one. But, I think that Mr. S is just reaching out for advice. It's not weird and I could see my husband doing the same thing. Not all men are the same.

Robyn

[Triskeliongirl]

I am gonna chime in with Robyn here. No disrespect meant to Mimi, but what I think Raleighdon doesn't get is that our community is unique, in part cuz we are mostly women, but that gender is not a requirement for participation. I think he is making a lot of assumptions about Mr. Silver's participation here that frankly aren't true. There are many kinds of people out there. I belong to bike journal to track my miles, and even though it is a mixed gender forum (so I officially 'belong'), I only tend to read the posts on the days that TE is down. Now, based on what I read last week I could read all kinds of things into that silly banter between Raleighdon and Pansypalmetto, but I won't cuz I know that banter suits a particular personality, just as our banter here suits a different personality. But I would never be so presumptuous as to read the kinds of things that Raleighdon is reading into Mr. Silver's posts.

With that being said, I do believe that Raleighdon's suggestion to get professional counseling on this one is a good one. I think Mr. Silver posted here cuz he couldn't sleep and he (and silver) needed a place to vent which is entirely appropriate within our community.

[Running Mommy]

WOW! I just read a part of one of the posts above and I have to say.... Can we all take a step back and count to ten??

I have nothing to add, but my support for the Silver family. Over the last few months I feel like I've gotten to know them, and I really feel for what they are going through right now.

Being a part of both a triathlon and this online forum for the last few years, I have encountered many view points. I've always tried to respect everyones right as an individual to believe what they want, even if I don't.
And over the years I have come across a few who I have thought that I would really like to meet someday. The silver family is on that list.
So again, nothing to add but my support and prayers.

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

Hmmm....would people criticize Silver the same way if it had been she who initiated this thread instead of Mr. Silver? I suspect not, but it's something to think about.

[jusdooit]

Jumping in here.
Silvers, I understand not wanting your parents to spend their last days in a nursing home. I had that struggle as well, for different reasons. I finally placed my mother because caring for her was killing me. Nursing facilities are all different, take time to find one that suits them best. A good facility will not allow your parents to sit around all day watching TV and bemoaning what's wrong with the world. My mother was very active, participating in nearly all the activities available to her, in spite of declining health. And............this may sound cold, it is a natural consequence to choosing to continue on the path of alcoholism. I am a recovering alcoholic.........I would have said or done anything while drinking to get others off my back. Mr. your mother's empty promises may be nothing more, but it's possible she wants to stop, but can't. I would get her help, if she takes it great, if not she has made the choices. The only option I see to protecting them (and you)from themselves if they won't stop drinking is long term care. So what if it takes all their money, so be it. Remember it was their choice to get to this point.
I might add I stopped drinking through AA. No one intervened, no treatment, just sick and tired of the life I was living.

[Geonz]

And back to the original topic... here are some thoughts I have no investment in so toss 'em if you like. Could part of this be as simple as after two drinks go down the rest taste better and better... not because of deep-rooted psychological issues but physiology? I say this because an elderly biking buddy said he has given up drinking because after one, he wants two and three and four... and this has been a physiological change. (I don't know if there are other issues like meds involve or not.)
She seems to recognize that there *is* a problem with drinking too much... would she grasp that she needs to figure out a way to deal with the apparent fact that once she starts, she doesn't stop? FInd creative ways to keep the quantity down (like "you gotta drink two glasses of seltzer water for every drink")?
Again, not any kind of expert here but tossing in the "options if other ones aren't working" ideas.

It's not clear who the "control" and "attention seeking" comments are talkin' about... but mayhbe that's how it was meant.

[Zen]

Actually, the initial post involves more issues than a parents alcoholism. I don't think Raleighdon was criticizing, simply stating facts, one of which is that this is a parent-child issue as well as an addiction issue.
It may be difficult but I do think it's something to consider. Tough Love.

[Crankin]

Good point, Lisa. Most likely they wouldn't. Everyone has a different personality and that usually comes through in what's written here. I am not involved in any other on line forum; I do bike journal just to track my miles, but I am seriously considering not rejoining because I am not sure how much I will be able to ride next year and I get obsessive about it anyways. But back to the point you made; our society expects women to seek advice, but not men. My husband stayed home with our first son when he was born in 1982, for the first eight months. He was totally comfortable with that role, even though it was very unusual back then. He never felt weird taking the kids to daycare or hanging around and talking to the other moms there. I am sure some might have thought he had other motives or was trying to meet some need because of a "problem," but it just wasn't the case.
It is ah, usually pretty obvious when someone on the forum is having real psychological issues and I don't think Mr. Silver is one of them. Sure, the situation does require help from professionals, but he is just asking for advice here.