Serious Issue: Advice for Dealing with Alcoholics

[salsabike]

So beautifully said, Spinswebs.

[RoadRaven]

Perfect crafted response, SW
Perfect

Silver family... kia kaha, kia manawanui

(Be strong, be of good heart - have faith in youselves)

[Mr. Bloom]

Thanks to all!

Every post here has provided thoughtful insight and perspective.

I'm considerbly more encouraged at 3AM today than at 3AM yesterday...(why am I not in bed????)

I think that I'm resolved that I can't let them drink themselves into a nursing home. The badgering from them over restricted drinking is better than the begging we'd receive to get them out of such a bleak place as a nursing home. Don't misunderstand - nursing homes do their best at caring, but it is simply too bleak to imagine as an acceptable solution.

To All with Kids: Please resolve right now that you won't become the children in your kids' life...

[Triskeliongirl]

I think that I'm resolved that I can't let them drink themselves into a nursing home. The badgering from them over restricted drinking is better than the begging we'd receive to get them out of such a bleak place as a nursing home. ...

I think this is a wise move. To keep the relationships more intact, can you let the docs or medical staff be the bad guys. Tell them that because of what the alcohol is doing to their health, their doctors are refusing to continue care for them in this facility if they continue to drink. Then tell them you support the doctors on this because the alternatives (nursing home care) are both unacceptable and would also not allow alcohol. Explain that medical facilities cannot care for patients with liver disease and diabetes that consume alcohol, its as simple as that. Its also the truth.

[maryellen]

i have a 94 year old father in a similar situation. not easy.

side note: In response to your aside about nursing homes and Medicare, typically Medicare does NOT pay for long term nursing home care. Usually the elder must "spend down" their assets until they qualify for Medicaid.

[mimitabby]

more from Mr Raleighdon who apologizes for butting in once again on a women's cycling forum:

alcoholism is one of the most destructive FAMILY diseases in our society. Unfortunately it isn't just the alcoholic that suffers from the disease and it is not only the alcoholic that lives in a state of denial. While family members don't cause the disease (i.e., it ain't their fault), neither do the alcoholics, themselves. None of us can control this disease, and yet we spend countless hours, days weeks, months and years of our lives attempting to do just that. "If I could just get mom or dad to cut down..." "If we could just....." Well, I can't, you can't and we can't. And the more we try, the sicker we become and at the same time, so does the alcoholic.

The bottom of every hole is that point at which someone throws down their shovel and stops digging. And it isn't just the alcoholic who needs to come to a point of surrender into a recovery process. For family members affected by this disease, the impact of years of the disease is a denial system that is every bit as well ingrained as that of the alcoholic, and must be broken through if there is any hope for recovery. The alcoholic may or may not get sober. That is a choice that they, and only they, can make. A great deal of assistance can be rendered in a lot of ways to help them get there, but unfortunately, a family member who is just as sick as them is not the person to render that assistance with love, respect, non-judmental decision making and dignity. If mom and/or dad are faced with assisted living, there are innumerable community services available that can give a lot of help, but as long as the adult children of alcholics think they can control mom and dad, the problem will continue to become worse not betterr.

I've often wondered why a man would spend so much of his energy surrounding himself with women in a site like Team Estrogen, and Mimitabby shares posts with me sometimes, seeking my thoughts on various issues. It astounds me that a purported well educated and balanced man would come to a women's bicycling group about his mom and dad's alcoholism. It just seems to me that this is about control and attention getting, both which are well defined and clearly identifiable symptoms of a highly evolved and advanced state of denial about ones' own problem. Don't bother to focus on the REAL PROBLEM, which is your own life, your own fears, your own self-doubt, your own low self esteem, your own losses, but deflect all of that outward, attempt to get others to endorse your bull$&#%) and fish for answers you can pick apart, re-work until they seem to agree with your own desires which are clouded with diseased thinking and find that one person out of twenty who will say, "Oh you poor thing. How hard it must be for you." and lock in on that sympathy.

Alcoholics and adult children of alcoholics neither deserve nor need pity. They already have enough of that themselves. All that self-pity is keeping them sick. What they need is a hand up, and good, professional help, support from their own community and to be treated with dignity and respect. Sometimes, that dignity and respect may mean making some tough choices, like saying goodbye. Respecting someone enough to quit endorsing their behavior. Respecting someone enough to allow them to live with the consequences of the life of bad decisions they have made. Respecting someone enough to say to them, I'm very sorry you feel that way, but I disagree and can't accept the guilt, shame and blame that you are trying to put on me."

Ánd as Forrest Gump might add, That's all I have to say about that.

[Crankin]

OK, I'm going to chime in here, despite the fact that I have no experience with alcoholism. In fact, I am only going to address the question Mr. Mimi posed: Why would a man ask advice on this topic from the women on TE?

I think (and I may be presumptive here), Mr. Silver asked because we are a community and he feels like he belongs to this community. We might disagree as to the answers to this problem, which is a tough one. But, I think that Mr. S is just reaching out for advice. It's not weird and I could see my husband doing the same thing. Not all men are the same.

Robyn

[Juliette]

I've often wondered why a man would spend so much of his energy surrounding himself with women in a site like Team Estrogen, and Mimitabby shares posts with me sometimes, seeking my thoughts on various issues. It astounds me that a purported well educated and balanced man would come to a women's bicycling group about his mom and dad's alcoholism.[/QUOTE]

This is kind of offensive on a couple of different levels:

1) Maybe Mr. Silver just needs a place to unload. This has historically been a non-critical, non-judgemental group. That is often hard to come by these days. OK, a few divas and kooks have come by every now and then, but on the whole, people here are respectful and courteous. Making judgements about a single participant based on a few comments seems rude and inappropriate.

2)Mercy, a man asking women for advice. What is this world coming to!!! Like women have no value to add to discussion with a man because of their gender. Sorry, I'm not buying into that. It seems like there are some really wise people participating on this board and from some of the replies to this thread, others have gone down this road also.

I don't have any experience with alchoholism, but we all have problems to work through and my thoughts are with the Silvers as they deal with this issue.

[Mr. Bloom]

Raleighdon:
1) Thank you for your insightful thoughts in three of your paragraphs. As I understand from Mimi's earlier post, you have direct professional experience that gives credibility to your input (as to the matter of dealing with alcoholics). When I ask someone what they think, it's my hope that they'll tell me what they think, not what I want them to say. Your feedback is thought provoking and that's useful.

2) As to your somewhat personal attack on me:

• You're welcome to criticize me, my motives, my shortcomings, etc.
• But in all honesty, I'd encourage you to 'earn qualification' to do so by interacting with me directly first. Say the word, and I'll PM you my phone # and email address - Then you can analyze me thoroughly My life's an open book and is anything but perfect...but you can rest assured that "pity" is not a phrase in my vocabulary. I count my blessings everyday.
• Don't criticize me because we see things differently. I may not hang out in macho places like you, but rest assured I'm very happy with who I am

In business, I dive in head first and confront challenges that don't have evident answers. But, personal matters are not so easy. In reality, there is no single 'right' response. That's where a forum like this is helpful...and this happens to be a very experienced, diverse, and intelligent group where, in 24 hours, I received feedback and encouragement from a culturally and geographically diverse group of people to challenge and guide me.

So, why do I dive in here before diving into the "community services available"? Well, unlike you, we live in a small city...as a matter of fact, I was the board president of a remarkable organization that is THE BEST "community service available" in this area...but it's not suited for this this situation...so I know the local options are limited.

Thanks for your thoughts. My offer of my #/email address is sincere - not for confrontation, but if you have insight into a problem that I don't see, then I'm all ears

Have a Happy New Year!