Im Lou...

[Starfish]

Though it doesn't even compare to what you ladies do, this is exactly why I didn't do the Irongirl sprint tri this year. I knew I could do the swim and the bike, and I could walk the run, and I would have finished with a slow time. But I hadn't trained and I thought that it was disrespectful to those who did to just show up and go through the motions.

OK...I am being brave and stepping in with a little different viewpoint, maybe. I DO really respect you marathoners, ironmen, and other athletes participating in this thread. I hope from my other discussions across TE you can tell that. So, I'm respectfully wondering:

I guess I have to ask exactly how, at this sprint distance, your showing up less than really well trained would have disrespected the other participants?

It doesn't sound like you would have had to use SAG-type support resources, or otherwise been a burden on race organizers or other participants.

Perhaps it depends on what you mean, really, by just going through the motions...and why you were drawn to doing it in the first place. Would it have been wrong to just go out and do it for fun, rather than to leave every ounce of yourself out on the course?

What does a person's motivation have to be in order to be considered respectful? For instance, earlier this year, I did a metric century. I did it as a training ride, to test out some things I wanted to use later in the season for my goal event. I didn't have any intention of leaving it all out on the course, or taking it particularly seriously. I knew I wouldn't need SAG or otherwise burden the official ride. I was doing it for my own purposes. I don't feel I was disrespectful to the folks out there who had made that metric or the whole century their big deal for the year.

Please don't misunderstand. I have enormous respect for motivated, trained, successful endurance athletes. I have extreme respect for an Ironman official finisher under 17 hours (as long as that person also has a respect-worthy character, etc.). I don't think people should do events expecting a medal if they don't finish in the time. I don't think people are wise to do difficult events untrained, and put the organization under the strain of dealing with their injuries or whatever.

But, I just kind of wonder what, for instance, would make it wrong or disrespectful for someone to train up to walking a marathon if that was their intended goal and they weren't trying to pretend they ran the whole thing, etc. I just read a book called Marathoning For Mortals by Mr. Bingham which includes a training plan specifically for walking a marathon.

What do a person's goals and motivations have to be in order to be viewed as good enough for you guys, is, I guess, my question?

[alpinerabbit]

Forgive me for chiming in late again - the cutoff for IMCH, by the way, is 23.00 (16 hours)...

[crazycanuck]

Starfish-it's about finishing before the cut off time..not after.

C

[divingbiker]

I guess I have to ask exactly how, at this sprint distance, your showing up less than really well trained would have disrespected the other participants?

Well, for me, I knew a couple of people who had worked very hard for over six months to train for it. I hadn't done a thing except "run" and swim once and do my normal biking. I know that a sprint doesn't compare to a HIM or IM, but it still didn't feel right to me to not train at all. Maybe it's because I've never participated in any group sports or competitions, so I'm not comfortable just showing up and doing poorly while others have taken it seriously.

[HillSlugger]

Thats another reason why the water noodle thing at the danskin races bugs me so much.

???

When I decided I wanted to get into triathlon the first thing I did was sign up for swim lessons at the Y. It wasn't until I could swim 30 laps that I decided I was ready to sign on the dotted line.

I signed up first, and then started swimming lessons a few months later. For me, I needed to sign up first, to make it real and to set that stake in the ground: "You need to be ready for THIS event on THIS date" (I'm not so good with vague goals). The first tri I signed up for was Iron Girl; when I realized how poor a swimmer I was I began having second thoughts and signed up for the shorter tri. For me, I see needing to take small steps towards a longer triathlon: short sprint, longer sprint, olympic, etc. That's just me and my overly logical way of going about life. I'm sure some people need a big kick in the @ss to get started and an HIM or IM might be what's right for them. Hopefully the do respect the distance (or learn to respect the distance), otherwise they could get hurt and bring others down with them.

[KSH]

But I guess I want to say that I think that this was a little hitch in the process here, caused by trying to adapt to the water/current situation. I looked at the results and only 3 people are listed as having a time greater than 17:00. These people know the rules and they know that they are not ironmen. We know they are not. I don't think that it sets a precedent for watering down the Ironman overall.

Silver, the cut off at IMKY was 12:30 ish... so about 17:30 hours due to the TT swim start. Which is fine... although they needed to track WHO came in at or under 17 hours... but whatever.... so some people did indeed race longers than 17 hours and get a medal.

My story was in reference to a lady... I read her race report on another site... and she was on the run course and they said she wasn't going to make the 17:30 cut off... so they took her timing chip.

She still finished the course and came in at 18:00... and she still got a medal. Now, that's just not right.

The organizers of the race aren't there to make everyone who is out there feel all warm and fuzzy about themselves. If you didn't make it in under 17:30 (for IMKY) then you didn't deserve a medal.

[KSH]

Starfish-it's about finishing before the cut off time..not after.

C

Exactly.

Hey, I can say I race for fun. I'm not out there winning anything, so why not make it fun? I talk to my fellow racers, cheer them on, smile, etc.

Do I pass out at the finish line because I left it all on the course... nope... and so what?

I trained for it... I got out there and did it... no one had to support me on the course because I wasn't conditioned.. and that's all that matters.

Don't analyze it too much. If you are out there doing it and have trained for it... then you are all good in anyone's book!

[Starfish]

Thanks, everyone.

I do agree that the time limit is important.

I also do get it that training/competing is a personal journey.

I have a harder time understanding the issues around respect/disrespect to other competitors at the easier distances, especially.

I have a hard time understanding what is wrong with walking a marathon if that is the goal you start out with, and you aren't trying to pretend to do or be something you're not.

[Wahine]

Wow. Did this ever turn into an interesting thread.

So, I'm not sure what I want to say except that I believe in th cut-off. If you're over, no medal.

As for respecting the distance. There will always be people that sign up for events that haven't a clue what the event entails. Some of them will go out and finish and some of them will get spanked. None of that matters to me. If you have the guts to sign up, that is in and off itself an accomplishment. If you go out ill prepared, you'll find out soon enough and if you didn't respect a race before you got to find out how difficult it was first hand...you will after.

There is nothing wrong with coming up with a race strategy and sticking to it. If it involves walking, walk. Just get the job done, race your race and don't worry about anybody else.

[Starfish]

Wow. Did this ever turn into an interesting thread.

See what happens when you go off to compete, and leave us to our own devices, Yoda?

[rocknrollgirl]

Well,
I am late coming in to this thread. Not sure how I missed it. Very interesting discussion. My 2 cents:

1. Miss the cutoff, no medal. RM, if I were you I would be bitter, and pissed. I am silly, but I would not wear the t-shirt unless I finished properly. Just me.

2. I do not think entering a race that you are not prepared for is disrespectful to the other racers. Foolish perhaps, but not disrespectful.

I have seen it at Xterra this summer. People see the 13 or 14 miles on the bike and say...hey...that is easy, I can do that. Not thinking that it will actually be technical, single track racing.

Oh well, they find out soon enough. If they are lacking respect of some sort, they learn it quickly enough. The hard way. I would imagine lots of folks learn those lessons at HIM and IM races all the time.


RACE ON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Kimmyt]

I guess I'll butt in here too, even though I haven't read the whole thing (just bits here and there).

And have to say, I feel that this discussion is pretty interesting, and probably deserves its own thread.

Anyway, I would be pissed too, about the unofficial Ironmen. If it were me I wouldn't accept the medal. Maybe I would. Maybe I would keep it around, kind of as a motivator. I certainly wouldn't tell people I finished an Ironman. I wouldn't have, after all.

And as for disrespecting other athletes by not being prepared enough? Well, perhaps in a race that is a more serious distance. But a sprint. Now, i'm certainly not saying a sprint is easy. It's not, I did 2 this year. But there are a whole variety of people competing in a sprint, from those who are really racing, and putting up competitive times, to those who are just doing it for a lark, to those who have trained and trained just to finish.

Many times, sprint events are very beginner-friendly, so why would you worry that you're disrespecting the training of other athletes? I mean, most of those athletes are probably in your shoes, signed up, maybe didn't train enough but are hoping to do well.

A friend of mine signed up for my first tri with me. She got on the bike maybe 3 times before the race, and she doesn't ride a bike. Her bike was an old 10spd someone had bought for her, the tires blew out every time she rode it. She had no idea how to care for her bike, she only wore a helmet because we told her she needed to get one. She didn't swim at all before the race. She was a lifeguard in h.s., about 10 years ago. She ran maybe once or twice.

I wanted to beat her, because I was taking my training seriously and she was just doing it for fun. I really really wanted to beat her. But guess what? She smoked me, in and out of the water. She beat me out of the water by about 6 minutes, managed to come within 1mph of me on the bike (me with my fancy bike and clipless pedals and her with her dodgy old bike), and then proceeded to fly by me on the run and finish a good 2 minutes ahead of me.

Was that disrespectful of her to me? Heck no, she had a good race. It burned me like hell, but you know what? I'm used to getting smoked by people and can deal with someone jumping off the couch and beating me in a race.

When I did those two races, there were plenty of people there that probably hadn't put in the training I had. They didn't have fancy bikes, they were very slow swimmers, but I didn't hold that against them. They were there like I was to have fun and do their best to beat their personal goals. They weren't being disrespectful to me by being there at all. Nor, I hope, was I being disrespectful to the people that finished on the podium and flew by me at 21mph on the bike. There's all sorts of levels.

If you wait until you're 'good enough' you just might never compete, because there will always be someone better than you.


K.

[Running Mommy]

I tell the kids in my adopt an IM talks this..

There will ALWAYS be someone faster than you, and always be someone slower. Don't sweat the details. Run your race, and do YOUR best, for whatever that is on that day.
But don't let the thought that you aren't fast enough keep you from trying something that you just may love!

Personally I just shrug off those that show up with no real training under their belts. I figure they will learn. Look at Lance last year in the NYC marathon. Yeah he finished in under 3, but just barely, and not without a lot of pain. I think it was his ego alone that got him through that race. He had pacers, and fans along the entire course. But even with his athletic (ya think?) background I knew what was going to happen after he said his longest run was like 2 hours. I want to say 15 miles or something? I was like "ut oh... this is gonna be a train wreck"... And I was there, so I can tell you- he was in PAIN at the end. Muscle memory can only get you so far.
But they don't really bug me. As long as they take the time to read the rules.
If your not gonna take the time to train, at least take the time to read the rules!!