Ladies, women, girls....

[Starfish]

I think gal is the counterpart to guy.

What was that musical? Guys 'N Dolls? Maybe we should start calling each other Doll!!

JUST KIDDING!!!

[Tuckervill]

I also think that many people, men and women both, avoid the term "woman" for whatever reason. They don't mind calling a man a man, but balk at calling a grown-up female a woman. That drives me crazy. I think this is where we get the widespread use of "lady," the continuing, maddening use of "girl," and even in some situations, "female." I noticed that last when I was in the navy--men were "men" but women were "females." I tried to put a stop to that, too, in my little sphere of influence. Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

Woman is a loaded word, too, given the context and the tone of voice. My ex-husband used it as a warning when he was mad at me. (Guess why he's my ex?) So you know, it does have a connotation. I don't know if that's a Southern thing or not.

As I said, I try to use it. I don't mind if another woman calls me a "girl" but if a man says it, no matter his age, and especially if he's not much older than me, it really ticks me off.

Karen

[Tuckervill]

Exactly. I became a ma'am I guess...don't remember the first time but

I've had long conversations with certain Californians of my acquaintance who insist that ma'am is a term of insult no matter who uses it and when.

In the South, we use it (and sir) freely regardless of who is on which end of the social transaction. It's still somewhat archaic--a quaint little throwback to another era of extreme politeness.

My CA friends insist that "miss" is an appropriate substitute! As in, "Excuse me, Miss? You dropped your handkerchief." But why is miss any less ageist or sexist than ma'am? I don't get it. I just keep using ma'am and usually it is preceded by a brisk "thank you.."

Karen

[mimitabby]

.

What gets me are people who ask questions that don't directly ask the question. I do aircraft weight and balance. I have agents call me to ask if the plane has "weight and balance". What they mean is "are there any restrictions?" or "how many standbys can I clear?". I really try to contain myself from going off on them and saying EVERY flight has weight and EVERY flight has balance. Get to the point and ask what it is you need to know. Grrrr. I'm cranky that way.

yeah, we have this airplane, and it has no weight at all! we can sell it for big bucks!! but... is it balanced????

[AllezGirl]

Seriously...this happened a few times when I wore my hair very short (I'm also very tall).

Since then, I've lowered my standards ...call me whatever you like as long as it has a female connotation.

Including "b1tch"...I wear that label with pride.

[kelownagirl]

Wow, I knew you guys would have a ton of opinions on this!

OK, I called you all "guys", then almost changed it to "ladies" and then realized the irony of it all so I left it as is...

I must admit that I refer to my friends as "the girls" quite often and they're in the 40-60 age range. I sometimes use the word "chick" but usually only when I'm PO'd at a woman as in "That chick just cut me off!" I call people of both sexes "guys" but that falls back to my youth. I do refer to a woman as a "lady" depending on her age and/or activity and I think there are plenty of occasions where the term is perfectly appropriate.

I guess my main point was that it sounded weird to me to refer to a female athlete as a lady and it sounds like most of you agree so I will tell DH and make my point.

My own pet peeves - I didn't like being called "ma'am" too much at first but I'm getting used to it, the older I get, and we don't hear it much around here anyway.

But I really hate being called "dear" by a woman younger than me. Where I live, we sometimes call an elderly lady "dear" and elderly people often call us "dear" but if a younger woman calls me "dear" I guess I figure it implies she thinks I'm old!

Thanks for your replies!

[Pika]

KG- hopefully you didn't hear me yelling at IMC
"You loook great ladies!!" as a group of women ran past...
I agree that I would never want to be called " dears" but how was I to cheer? Chicks? Women? hmmm- I have to say I did think they all look great- I tried to call them by name ( on some of their bibs) but as a group would go past I often called them ladies- I guess I feel they did looked great- not looking like guys.. a step up -not that being sweaty and trying hard, pushing it, is only something guys can do... they just looked great- I called them ladies outta respect I guess.
It never would have occurred to me to shout out- "women you look great"
I don't know why really.. typed out is seems natural enough- but I often shouted out ladies ( only as a group went past ...)
I have to say - there were some awesome bikes going past too- mostly I was worshiping them!!

[lyca]

I'm going to throw in my vote against "sweetheart" by men I don't know.

This happened to me just tonight. I was out on a short run and there was a pick-up truck pulling out of a driveway. There is a lot of construction happening on my street, so the truck had a bit of manuvering to do. The guy saw that I was coming and tried to move out of the way (which I appreciated), but I had to slow down a bit, anyway. He apparently felt badly about it and apologized to me....and then tacked on "sweetheart" to the end of it.

"Sorry, sweetheart!". Grrrr.

[kelownagirl]

Pika - actually come to think of it, I might shout the same thing.Maybe I have a double standard and figure it's something I can do but DH cannot?

But I ask you, would you have talked about them and referred to them as a lady? IE "That lady is really running fast"?

PS - Wish I'd known you, and Grog, were there on Sunday. I would have tried to hook up at some point and said hello.

[Zen]

But I ask you, would you have talked about them and referred to them as a lady? IE "That lady is really running fast"?

Never.
That sounds like something a child would say, not another adult.

The only instance I can think of where I would use "lady" is if I were waiting tables.
"Can I interest you ladies in dessert?" why, yes you can!

There is a woman at the front desk of my doctors office who calls me "hon" as in honey. Very unprofessional. And extremely annoying.

[Pika]

Pika - actually come to think of it, I might shout the same thing.Maybe I have a double standard and figure it's something I can do but DH cannot?

But I ask you, would you have talked about them and referred to them as a lady? IE "That lady is really running fast"?

PS - Wish I'd known you, and Grog, were there on Sunday. I would have tried to hook up at some point and said hello.

I agree- I would not have said- that lady has a nice bike, or that lady is running fast- I think most of the day I was saying " geez- did you see her? she was moving..or that girl with the leopard print looked like she need water- etc etc,
Would have been nice to meet you too- DH and I decided rather late to get there - we had dogsitters to find etc.
So glad we did though, it was a blast- I would do it again in a second.

[Zen]

What was that musical? Guys 'N Dolls? Maybe we should start calling each other Doll!!

Hello, Doll
Makes me think of a black and white movie about a down on his luck detective.
A gumshoe, if you will.

[kelownagirl]

I dated a guy when I was 19 who always called me "Doll". I liked it at the time. Not sure if I would now though...

[teigyr]

I guess I wonder if we want to be neutral? It's hard to say because it's all in intent for me. Sometimes I can swallow my pride and let things go if the person really means well. I don't see myself as a ma'am or a lady or a woman or a female at all, if truth be told. I like girly stuff, but I'm my own person. I also understand that other people, like us, mean well but don't know how to classify well.

So in the knowledge that our language is patriarchal in nature, what would you call a female athlete? Or someone competing against the big boys?

(I can say that, I swam in the big girl/boy lane at the gym AND I did 30 laps. Means I can say these things, right?)

[teigyr]

I've had long conversations with certain Californians of my acquaintance who insist that ma'am is a term of insult no matter who uses it and when.

I just keep using ma'am and usually it is preceded by a brisk "thank you.."

Karen

Oddly enough, I grew up in Calif and moved 5-6 years ago to WA. Maybe that could explain a lot? There is a lot of regional dialect/colloquialisms/oddities. I think ma'am means old though I have to admit that there's a guy at work from the south who says it and it sounds kind of, er, cute. He's military and (as I said from the south) so I think it's a compliment