Need Friend Advice

[teigyr]

Quint41, I think that's a wonderful way to handle it. I know there's honesty and there's honesty and you don't want to hurt her but still...Vegas would not be good. Those situations are so difficult and unfortunately genuine concern can be turned around to "you don't want me there" as opposed to you don't want the behavior and the behavior is destructive.

Since she knows she has problems, maybe this will be what she needs to continue on with therapy. Sometimes reality is the best wakeup call. And maybe you could offer to do something else with her; something less dangerous than the city of vice.

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

Hard and awkward though it may be, I think it is best to gently and kindly tell your friend the truth. Be kind but firm...no need to lecture. It will actually be doing your friend a favor in the long run.
If she gets mad at you then oh well, she needs more time to face her problem. She needs to be made aware that her problem has very real effects on her life and on others around her. Telling her in a kind but matter of fact manner is the best thing any friend could do for her. Sometimes friends need to be brave.

[CycleChic06]

Thank you all for the wonderful advice. I am one of the four that organizing the trip, so unfortunately it's up to me and another girl who's also friends with her to tell her no. We had a long discussion today about how we're going to handle it. The truth is a really hard thing to say sometimes, and it's going to hurt her, but I think you are all right, it's just what has to be said. It can have two effects that I see. 1. She realizes she really has a problem and it motivates her to change. 2. It drives her further into misery and drinking. I'm seriously worried that the second one might happen.

I"ll discuss it more with the mutual friend, and then the two of us will have to send down with her, I guess. It's really hard, and I don't want to do it.

Thank you all for your advice, I think I knew what I had to do, just needed some reassurance.

[snapdragen]

CycleChic - has your friend sought treatment for depression? She sounds like me in my twenties. I used alcohol to self medicate, it was not pretty. Much like your friend, I got surly and mean.

[Zen]

It can have two effects that I see. 1. She realizes she really has a problem and it motivates her to change. 2. It drives her further into misery and drinking. I'm seriously worried that the second one might happen.

This situation is not serious enough to make her stop drinking. It will make her angry and she will, as Snap said, self-medicate.
For an alcoholic to stop drinking they usually do have to hit the proverbial "rock bottom". This just isn't hard enough to be rock bottom, it's just another low point for her.

[Trek420]

For an alcoholic to stop drinking they usually do have to hit the proverbial "rock bottom". This just isn't hard enough to be rock bottom, it's just another low point for her.

You never know. "rock bottom" doesn't necessarily mean on the street, lost it all, looking for that last bit of cooking sherry.

Some put 2 + 2 together earlier.

But you don't do her any favors by delaying the inevitable and holding her up before the fall. And you, your friends and the rest of Vegas will be miserable if you take her on the trip and care of her.

How many alchoholics does it take to change a iightbulb?
One. But first the lightbulb has to want to change

[Tuckervill]

Others have said it already, but here's how I would put it.

She's going to drink heavily no matter what you do. If you tell her, she'll drink. If you let her come, she'll drink. Alcohol abusers will use any excuse--or none.

Anything other than absolute honesty is enabling her. Enforcing your boundaries is the only honorable way to behave in this situation.

I feel for you, though

Karen

[CycleChic06]

Thanks again for all your advice and concern. She seems to go through cycles, she'll hit bottom, seek help, get better, then go off on her own again and start going down hill, hit botton, etc... I'm not an expert, but I agree that its probably caused by depression. She recently turned 30, lives alone and is just generally unhappy with herself. A few months ago after a recent break-up, she locked herself in her apartment for 4 days and went on a drinking binge, didn't go to work, wouldn't even get out of bed, wouldn't answer phone calls. She's a mess, and as a friend I'm at a loss of how to help her. I listen to her when she's upset and try to be there for her, but I don't know what else to do. I've discussed it with mutual friends and none of us know how to help her. Like you all said, she has got to want to help herself.

I think you are all right, honesty is best in this situation. The truth will hurt, but I hope in the end she'll understand it's for her own good.

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

She's going to drink heavily no matter what you do. If you tell her, she'll drink. If you let her come, she'll drink. Alcohol abusers will use any excuse--or none.

Anything other than absolute honesty is enabling her. Enforcing your boundaries is the only honorable way to behave in this situation.

This is all completely true.
As an alcoholic, she will drink until she stops drinking. Doesn't matter if you say anything or not, or if you listen to her woes and are supportive or not. If she were to get a raise at work, she'd drink to celebrate and get drunk. If she got fired, she'd drink to comfort herself and get drunk. You drink because you're happy, you drink because you're depressed. You drink because you're surrounded by friends and having a good time, you drink because you're alone and sad. You drink because you drink.
She needs to work through her problem and get help through other people who are working to stop drinking. Sympathetic listening by well meaning friends does not help her. AA might seem corny but it works for a lot of people. She needs to get help on her own as many times as she needs to. The only way she will ever be able to "control" her drinking is by living a life where she is not drinking at ALL. This concept often takes years for an alcoholic to come to grips with, and years of trial and error.
The best way to be her friend is to be honest with her.

[mimitabby]

It can have two effects that I see. 1. She realizes she really has a problem and it motivates her to change. 2. It drives her further into misery and drinking. I'm seriously worried that the second one might happen.

Sometimes things have to get worse before they can get better. Zen sort of mentioned it. She's got to get pretty miserable before she's going to decide she had enough. (that rock bottom)
And you can't hold yourself responsible for HER reactions. She engages in extremely self-destructive behavior. That's not your fault. She's going to do it whether you invite her or not. Best have her home drinking than spoiling your party.

Please don't feel guilty, that feeds her behavior. Have fun.

[Starfish]

Yes, please do not feel guilty. You did not cause her drinking, you cannot control it (by however you handle this situation...whether you say things "just right" or not), and you cannot cure it. You can best treat her with respect by telling her the truth with love.

And, enjoy your trip!

[Irulan]

. 1. She realizes she really has a problem and it motivates her to change. 2. It drives her further into misery and drinking. I'm seriously worried that the second one might happen.

well, if #2 does happen - it's not your fault at all. Starfish's advice "You didn't cause it, You cant' control it, You can't cure it" is spot on. (the infamous 3 c's) You are not responsible for her choices, only yours. So you can choose to include her, or not include her. There's absolutely nothing wrong with choosing to not include her. And there's absolutely nothing wrong with taking care of yourself by setting good boundaries.

If it makes her angry: so what, you don't have to take it on.
Ultimately, nothing you do or say will cause a person with a drinking problem to make different choices for themselves. The desire to change has to come from within. In the meantime, you might have to watch a friend self-destruct which could be difficult and painful. There are resources out there for friends and families of alcoholics.