Tailgated by other cyclist!!

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

Seems pretty obvious to me that "bike paths" that are frequently used by joggers, baby carriages, roller bladers, dog walkers, families with small children, scooters, fitness walkers, and beginner cyclists are just NOT places where an experienced cyclist would want to ride at a reasonable speed anyhow.

Why do we keep acting surprised and angry when people don't behave in such a way that is geared towards cyclists? It's just not going to happen, ...just as car drivers are not going to do the right thing all the time either. It's up to us to ride in such a way as to avoid hazardous encounters. That might mean riding extremely slowly, avoiding such multi-use paths during crowded hours, or even avoiding them altogether.

[Tuckervill]

I don't mind being DINGed at, as long as you don't do it for the first time 3 feet behind me. The other day a guy in full kit and at full tilt on the MUT didn't say on your left until he was right at my back tire. Of course, I didn't hear him coming at all because he was coming so fast, and I jumped out of my skin.

If you're going to warn people, make some noise way back so they're not startled. I try to whistle a little tune about 20 yards away (our trails are not very crowded) so they at least know someone is back there and approaching. Then people don't startle when you get closer.

Karen

[Jo-n-NY]

Lisa, you are so right.

I have not ridden a favorite bike path of mine for two years because all the reasons listed above. When creating a route for the ROS that I organized I needed to use a small portion of the path that connected two towns. I never knew there was a one mile developement road that ran parallel with the beginning of the path, which is the part of the path that is used the most by walkers, etc. At the end of this road there is another entrance to the path.

Well last weekend, I decided to ride to the path from my house as I always did years ago but took the road bypassing the beginning of the path then instead of getting off the path that I would have for the ROS I continued on and had a very enjoyable ride that took me into the park I did it again the next day. I had it set in my head I was not going to be riding as fast as I do on the road, but going 15mph was working out just fine for me. Yes, I came across parents with a child riding and so I slowed up, let them know I was passing, told the kid that they were doing really good and went on my way. Other than that, there were not any of the walkers, baby strollers etc that are in the beginning of the path.

All in all this gave me an enjoyable 25 mile ride and is another alternative when I don't feel like really pushing it. I am on main/back roads getting and coming home from the path so the ride is like the best of both worlds.

~ JoAnn

[Jenn]

Seems pretty obvious to me that "bike paths" that are frequently used by joggers, baby carriages, roller bladers, dog walkers, families with small children, scooters, fitness walkers, and beginner cyclists are just NOT places where an experienced cyclist would want to ride at a reasonable speed anyhow.

Why do we keep acting surprised and angry when people don't behave in such a way that is geared towards cyclists? It's just not going to happen, ...just as car drivers are not going to do the right thing all the time either. It's up to us to ride in such a way as to avoid hazardous encounters. That might mean riding extremely slowly, avoiding such multi-use paths during crowded hours, or even avoiding them altogether.

Well, I'm sure, by your standards my husband and I are not "experienced" cyclist . I'm going to keep going back to my MAIN point in my post of the DRUNK half naked guy trying to run ME off the path, or the so called "experienced" riders all "decked" out running twice as fast as us, talking to eachother and almost hitting us head on!!! What is the deal, do people just read a post and pick it apart. As I stated before, DH and I did not go that fast with traffic, we put NOBODY in harms way, WE are responsible cyclist. When it was open and we had a good clear headway, YEA, we opened up and HAULED BUTT. HMM did I say we ran 22 the whole way running people over, throwing them off the path somewhere and didn't realize it???
The point is, if you are goin to be on a BIKE PATH, respect the people on it and be courteous.

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

Well, I'm sure, by your standards my husband and I are not "experienced" cyclist .

On the contrary, you seem to be pretty experienced compared to others you describe.

What is the deal, do people just read a post and pick it apart. As I stated before, DH and I did not go that fast with traffic, we put NOBODY in harms way, WE are responsible cyclist....HMM did I say we ran 22 the whole way running people over, throwing them off the path somewhere and didn't realize it???

Nobody said you acted irresponsibly. As to "picking apart posts"- Well, you relate to the forum in detail an experience that frightened you and was clearly a dangerous situation. People then suggest ways that this dangerous situation might be avoided in the future- either avoided by you or by themsleves or others. Such responses are only natural and are intended to be helpful, if not to you then perhaps to others less experienced in riding who read this thread too. No one is questioning your judgement or your abilities.

The point is, if you are goin to be on a BIKE PATH, respect the people on it and be courteous.

Yes I'm sure we all agree with this! Unfortunately many "bike paths" are used by pedestrians as well, people who have little knowledge of cycling safety behavior and who sometimes have little common sense. It's certainly important and worthwhile to discuss these types of hazards here, and how to avoid them. It was good that you brought the subject up, especially now that summer is upon us.

[RolliePollie]

Seems pretty obvious to me that "bike paths" that are frequently used by joggers, baby carriages, roller bladers, dog walkers, families with small children, scooters, fitness walkers, and beginner cyclists are just NOT places where an experienced cyclist would want to ride at a reasonable speed anyhow.

Why do we keep acting surprised and angry when people don't behave in such a way that is geared towards cyclists? It's just not going to happen, ...just as car drivers are not going to do the right thing all the time either. It's up to us to ride in such a way as to avoid hazardous encounters. That might mean riding extremely slowly, avoiding such multi-use paths during crowded hours, or even avoiding them altogether.

Good point, Lisa! I guess we all just like to moan & groan, vent, whine, share our frustration, etc., etc.! You can't expect people to act like you think they should act, do what you think they should do, or even think at all. I know I have done some really stupid things while riding on the trail AND on the road, and other people have undoubtedly vented about ME! And we can all choose where we ride and don't ride. That's why I'm going to steer clear of the trails as much as possible this summer.

But I still think MUT users (cyclists too!) need to be more aware of others. We can always hope for a perfect world, right?

Venting is just fun

[SouthernBelle]

I've often wondered why there isn't a line down the middle of paved paths just l;ike on the road. At least if someone isn't in their lane they would be at fault.

[ATL Laura]

I’m probably jinxing myself by writing this, but I haven’t had many problems on the MUT that I ride. But then again, I go out there with the mindset that I’m the only one paying attention and everyone is out to get me . It certainly gets crowded this time of year, but I’m lucky that only the first 5 miles or so are jam-packed. Further out on the trail its pretty quiet and that’s where the animals are…on Saturday I even saw a wild turkey! The snakes are a bit scary, but I’m getting used to them…

[Fredwina]

I've often wondered why there isn't a line down the middle of paved paths just l;ike on the road. At least if someone isn't in their lane they would be at fault.

There is one on some of the trails here.(the San Gabirel and Santa Ana River trails)
That being said, I tend to aviod them (do a search on "Fredwina" and "humerus" if you need more info ) and they are some folks how do the speed demon routine on them. They're about the only place here that you don't have to deal red lights every half mile or serious climbing.

[smilingcat]

MUT by the beach is really congested and its just not worth the hassle to ride a bike. No one pays attention to the "rules of the road". And occasionally there are "speed demons" on them. Last year an elderly woman was run over by a "speed demon". I think she suffered a broken arm. sad sad sad... The jerk wasn't a good rider and not very fast. So he was trying to be a big fish in a small pond.

I ride on road less travelled. And weekend training rides early in the morning before the traffic starts to pick up. Avoid the yahoos and crazy drivers.

Shawn

[rapid cycler]

I've often wondered why there isn't a line down the middle of paved paths just l;ike on the road. At least if someone isn't in their lane they would be at fault.

Oh, my local MUT has lines dividing the path into directional lanes, not to mention the helpful "Bike Lane" legend painted every 20 feet or so.

Lisa S.H.: "It's up to us to ride in such a way as to avoid hazardous encounters. That might mean riding extremely slowly, avoiding such multi-use paths during crowded hours, or even avoiding them altogether."

*pout* We can't have anything nice. *kicks ground petulantly*



Seriously, I know that we're always making choices based on the pros and cons of MUTs and the road—each have their disagreeable and downright dangerous issues—but whichever we choose, I don't think there's anything wrong with a little good-natured ranting about each.

In that spirit, I went for a quick ride after work last night, trying to get an hour in before the sun set. To avoid rush-hour traffic hell, I stuck to a lovely bike path the city thoughtfully added when it built a dedicated rapid bus corridor traversing the San Fernando Valley of Los Angeles. Not only does it allow for crossing the breadth of the SFV (about 20 miles from one end to the other) free of vehicular competition, it allows for doing so in relatively fresh air—the metroliner rapid buses are all clean-fuel rigs.

I was admittedly booking since I was racing against nightfall, but there weren't many peds or kids to speak of, so no harm. Then I came up on a knot of people who were chatting while blocking both lanes. I slowed a bit, thinking they'd soon notice me coming since it hadn't gotten dark yet and they were, after all, facing me, but when there wasn't any movement I gamely said "coming through" (maybe "permission to pass" would be more accurate to the situation?). Still no movement. I issued an "excuse me" as I got closer, and they still stood their ground, with one of them making and maintaining eye contact with me, as if we were engaged in some war of wills I didn't know I'd signed up for. I had slowed to such a crawl that I was going to have to unclip when other members of the cabal finally saw me and parted like bowling pins. "Thanks," I said, still friendly, as I turned the crank to regain momentum, and that's when Mr. Defiant Eye Contact lunged back into my path saying, "Go ahead and hit me. I want to die!" I managed to spit out "I don't!" as I lurched between him and his friends.

It reminded me of the yahoo-y behavior of pro cycling "fans" who crowd and crane into the route and try to run alongside and touch the riders. I can't imagine what it would be like to negotiate that level of idiocy on a regular basis!

As for bells, I used to rely on the noise of my freewheel to help announce my presence, but my new bike is just too darn quiet.

[Zen]

...Mr. Defiant Eye Contact lunged back into my path saying, "Go ahead and hit me. I want to die!" ...

Given such an opportunity for retort, I doubt I could have been so civil.

[mimitabby]

As for bells, I used to rely on the noise of my freewheel to help announce my presence, but my new bike is just too darn quiet.

did you switch from Campy to Shimano? I love my freewheel noise. It is so cool
and it brings back memories from the deep dark past of other bikes that did this.

[rapid cycler]

did you switch from Campy to Shimano? I love my freewheel noise. It is so cool
and it brings back memories from the deep dark past of other bikes that did this.

Freewheel noise is cool. Maybe I'll clothespin some playing cards in my spokes? That would definitely help to announce my approach!

Nope, my new bike has an Ultegra drivetrain, just as my last, though now it's 10-speed instead of 9. It may be all in my head (which is crowded enough as it is, thanks), but my 10-speed group seems quite a bit smoother than my 9. Then again, comparing a spanky-new drivetrain to one with thousands of miles in its wake unfairly stacks the deck (hey, there are those playing cards again).

[onimity]

Interesting thread.

Here our most crowded multi-use paths are divided into multiple lanes, a bike lane in either direction and a lane for pedestrians, etc. Most people stay in the correct lanes and it helps a lot. Plus, the passing protocol seems a bit easier for everyone to understand.

It seems that there are a couple of issues in this thread, first the issue of 'road rage,' whether on the road or not. That's a tough issue, in many ways. When people behave rudely or in dangerous ways it is easy to get frustrated, and that frustration, while natural, rarely contributes to our safety or that of others. It's especially frustrating to keep your cool when someone else does something wrong and gets angry at you.

So, to be clear, Jenn, it sounds like the guy you encountered was a real jerk and a dangerous one at that. It is a shame that there is no really good way for dealing with dangerous cyclists. That said, in general there are a few things that I try to keep in mind on multi-use trails.

First, at least here the rule is that bikes yield to everyone else. I try to follow the general rule on the road as well, where you are at fault if you hit someone from behind. When I find myself thinking about how frustrated I am when I am trying to go fast and someone is blocking my path, I think of all of the drivers that scare me when I'm riding on the road and then those (the majority) that do show me courtesy and watch out for my safety. It's funny, but I find myself taking on more of a car driver mentality when I am on my bike on paths...maybe it's something about being the fastest/most powerful vehicle. But I try to fight that feeling.

Second, good trail etiquette. I always make sure that I let people know that I am coming well in advance. Many people will stop and turn, even block your path inadvertently if you yell 'on your right/left' and you have to expect that. And hope that they learn. I always thank people for getting out of my way, that never hurts.

Third, while drivers have varying skills and experience on the road, the same is true to a much larger degree on trails. Kids, as several people have mentioned. I *love* seeing kids out on their bikes, but they do scare me when I am flying down a hill and come up on a trailfull of them. They can be a lot harder to see until you are close. I figure, though, that it is a good opportunity to teach kids the rules of the trail and use the same 'on your left' that I would with adults, and of course always compliment them on their cool bikes.

I had a Taekwon-Do instructor years ago who had a philosophy that we are all responsible for the things that happen to us. He illustrated this with the story of the time he was hit on his bicycle and thrown across an intersection by a drunk driver that made an illegal turn. 'It was my fault,' he said. I was a little dumbfounded at that, but he brought out some good points: he could have been more attentive, he could have been more visible, etc. And maybe it wouldn't have changed the outcome, but I thought it was a remarkably positive way of looking at ways to avoid being angry at things he couldn't change while finding ways that he might improve his own behavior by seeing his responsibility for his own safety.

Of course all that doesn't mean it isn't great to vent about the idiots we encounter. The other day, for example, I was crossing a bridge on a multi-use path by my house. It is a large log bridge on the path that is tall enough that you can't see the ground on the other side but bumpy and steep enough that you have to come at it with a good amount of speed to get across it. So I came flying up over the bridge like I do every morning only to see a woman crouched down at the other end of the bridge trying to untangle her two dogs, headed in opposite directions, whose massively long leashes blocked the entire bridge. I hit my brakes hard to avoid hitting her or one of the dogs, stopped almost instantaneously but toppled into the rail when I couldn't unclip in time. I was scared. She was scared. She yelled 'watch it!' angrily. Since I was already stopped I took the time to explain to her that I had of course looked but since she was crouched down I couldn't see her or the dogs blocking the *entire* path until I was on top of the bridge and a few feet from her. But of course it wouldn't have been a problem if I'd been going more slowly, either, even if that meant walking my bike across the bridge, which I now do.

IMO, multi-use trails can be a fantastic place to ride and train but as cyclists we should be as courteous to others as we would like cars to be to us on the road.

My two cents.

Anne