Road etiquette

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

here's a visual of the left turn with 2 lanes I mentioned. i stop at the front passenger-side corner of the first car or sometimes a little in front of the corner of their car to emphasize "we're all making left turns!". but this is what I find the easiest for me and where I live in this situation.

You're the little red guy. The first car is the blue object.

What if the blue object is talking on their cell phone or changing their cd's and doesn't notice you next to them, and then suddenly decides to turn right instead or go straight when the light turns green? This actually happens more often than one would think. Cyclists get killed this way every day.
Me, I take the lane for a left turn or to go straight.

[Crankin]

Lisa, I hope you didn't misinterpret what I said. I am in the left turn lane, but over to the right side of it. In fact, I am straddling the line between the left lane and the right (which in my case, the cars can only go right, since it's a T intersection). Otherwise, I always take the spot in line, directly behind the cars. One day my husband rode to my school and rode home with me. At my last major left turn (not the one above) there were 2 cars waiting ahead. I stopped behind the last one. My husband went around the left side of both and turned I patiently waited and then when I went, another car coming onto the main street made a left in front of me (I yelled and scared the c***) out of her). So I got punished for waiting and acting "good" while my husband rode agressively, the way that makes drivers hate cyclists, and I got punished!!!

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

Lisa, I hope you didn't misinterpret what I said. I am in the left turn lane, but over to the right side of it. In fact, I am straddling the line between the left lane and the right (which in my case, the cars can only go right, since it's a T intersection). Otherwise, I always take the spot in line, directly behind the cars. One day my husband rode to my school and rode home with me. At my last major left turn (not the one above) there were 2 cars waiting ahead. I stopped behind the last one. My husband went around the left side of both and turned I patiently waited and then when I went, another car coming onto the main street made a left in front of me (I yelled and scared the c***) out of her). So I got punished for waiting and acting "good" while my husband rode agressively, the way that makes drivers hate cyclists, and I got punished!!!

I do understand what you were saying. And even when we ride in the safest possible way (as you did in your example), sometimes cars will STILL do the bizarre and unexpected. In fact, we should COUNT of them to do the unexpected. When I am riding in traffic, I move in such a way as to create a buffer zone and envision an "escape route" for myself at any given moment. After deliberately doing this for a few months it becomes second nature, like glancing at your rearview mirror while driving your car becomes automatic.

In fact, I often glance at my helmet mirror while walking down the street without my bike or helmet on! It's an odd sensation. And last week I was driving my car and I slowed way down on a little road curve with a bit of gravel, momentarily forgetting i was not on my bike!

[smilingcat]

equus123 has a nice diagram. I do the same thing. The other interesting point too is that the cars generally will cut the corners so that they are make a really tight turn. And you making a very wide turn. This helps with the buffer zone. Another thing with this method is it helps a lot if you can "jump" off the line (accelerate as fast as possible so you are not next to the car as both of you make the turn). "jump" here doesn't mean that you start before the light turns green. Too many drivers around where I live run a red light.

And Like lisa says too. think of your "escape route".

As for idiots on cell phones. I make sure I get an eye contact and I wave my hand and let him know with no uncertain terms of my intention. If he is still unaware then I will tap his hood with palm of my hand to get his attention. They sometimes get mad but hey its my life.

And always assume the worst in car drivers.

[equus123]

Another thing with this method is it helps a lot if you can "jump" off the line (accelerate as fast as possible so you are not next to the car as both of you make the turn).

Exactly, I do the same thing. I try and do this at every light so make the drivers happy that I'm around when I'm in front at a light. I always look when the crossing street's light turns yellow and begin to slowly roll and clip in so that I'm off and going when ours turns green. It still cracks me up that there are so many people in a line of cars that honk literally 2 seconds after the light turns green. It's even funnier when the first car is already rolling - they may be slowly accelerating - and somebody honks. In a hurry mucH?! So one of my main objectives on the road at or near intersections is to have the smallest impact as possible on drivers and cars on the road. I live in NJ and people have no patience and SHORT tempers. They get pissed at anything. So I always try and just get out of the way or move as fast as possible to not make anybody angry....because it's real easy to do that around here!

[Jiffer]

I've been riding the roads on the back of a tandem for a while now, but I'm just about to embark on riding on a single (my new frame just came in!). The idea of riding on the roads always sort of freaked me out, which is why it was good for me to do in on a tandem first. I've been able to see what it's like, what you do in various situations.

As the person in the back of the tandem (the stoker), I'm usually the one who signals to cars that we're turning or whatever. You just stick your left arm out, if you're turning left, and basically point. I'll do that just before moving to get over into the left turn lane and then again when we actually take off and turn. When stopping in a left hand turn lane, my DH pulls up to the right of whatever car is stopped, just into the crosswalk. Then stays to the right side of the imaginary lane as he turns. They always wait and give us plenty of room. We've never actually turned right along side a car.

Since I'm about to embark on my own road cycling, I have been researching tips on all of this as well. (I get most of it from my hubs, who is an avid cyclist and loves to tell everybody how to do everything!) But just doing a search on google, I have come across some good articles with a lot of good advice. The main thing I remember one of them saying was, "A cyclist has the same rights and priveledges as drivers, so act like it!" The more I'm out there, the more comfortable I am with the idea of riding on my own. As for safety, you have a much better chance of being in an accident driving your car than you do your bike. (Per another article I read).

There's one time that an ignorant woman in a convertible was VERY upset that we were riding right in the middle of a lane. There was no one around and she had a whole entire lane next to us to go as fast as she wanted with no one in her way. Yet, she still had to make an issue out of it and as she passed, yelled, "Get in the bike lane!" My husband yelled back, "We are! Read your DMV manual!" There WAS no actual bike lane and, even if there was, it's typcially much safer to be in the regular lane, away from the debris that builds up close to the curb. Plus, you have more room to maneuver if need be. The closer you are to the edge, the more cars feel they can pass closer to you than is comfortable and safe for you, so my DH usually stays just a little inside the regular lane, even if there is a bike lane.

When we started riding, I was constantly telling him when there was a car coming up behind us. His typical reaction was, "Yah? And?" Like, what was he supposed to do about it?! He rides where he feels safe with a little room on the right and cars will pass when they're able to pass. I've learned to stress out less when there's a car coming. I'll only tell him if he's using up more of the lane than necessary, to give more room to the car to pass. Of course, I think he's usually quite aware all on his own that there's a car coming. But I have more flexibility to look around than he does, so when I hear something, I usually look right away.

Anyway, I recommend you do some internet searches for bicylce road safety. You'll find a lot of info that will hopefully help you feel more confident when you go out there. Plus, if you are able to, ride with a cycling club. It's a great way to learn all this stuff.

Sorry so long! I guess I had a lot to say!

[Crankin]

Sometimes riding with a cycling club isn't the best place to learn road safety! As a ride leader, i have to constantly keep people in line! Around here police are ticketing for riding side by side. I don't blame them. When i drive and see this, it's dangerous and annoying on our narrow country roads.
Lisa, what i was trying to explain was exactly like Eques' (sp?) diagram. I couldn't see the visual at school on my computer. And like you, I am always anticipating what stupid thing a driver will do and planning ahead. I just learned the "jump ahead" thing. On my morning commute, I cross a major highway. But at 5:50 AM, which is when I'm usually there, there are not a lot of cars going across, so the green light is very short when it's just 1-2 cars. The first day I rode, it turned red before I got across! So the next time, as soon as the light on the highway turned yellow, I looked to make sure there were no cars, and went before my light turned green. This is the only way I can make it across. On the way home, I ride up along the side of the line to the front and do the same.

[Torrilin]

I just learned the "jump ahead" thing. On my morning commute, I cross a major highway. But at 5:50 AM, which is when I'm usually there, there are not a lot of cars going across, so the green light is very short when it's just 1-2 cars. The first day I rode, it turned red before I got across! So the next time, as soon as the light on the highway turned yellow, I looked to make sure there were no cars, and went before my light turned green. This is the only way I can make it across. On the way home, I ride up along the side of the line to the front and do the same.

That's *really* dangerous. Both the jumping the light and having such a short green. I'd suggest getting in touch with your local police department about it. Explain that you want to follow the rules of the road, and the light is set up in a dangerous fashion, and ask how they want you to proceed. With any luck, they'll know who you should talk to in local government.

If the light is that short, it's dangerous for cars too. Too easy for someone driving while tired to make a mistake and t-bone another car.

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

So what do you folks do when you pull up alongside the right side of the car at a red light and then jump out fast when the light just turns green and start making your left turn ahead of the car that was to your left, but then that car goes STRAIGHT instead of turning left along with you? If they didn't see you lurking next to them at the light, or are distracted for the moment, they'll then plow right into you broadside as you cross left in front of them. Dangerous.

[Crankin]

Torrelin, I am not making left across the highway, I am just going across. The light is NOT unsafe for cars; there is a sensor that holds the light long enough for any amount of cars to go through. But a bike does not trip the sensor. That is a different type of sensor and there is no way that MA would put a "bikes stop here on green" sensor (which trips the light for a bike) in this spot. I really don't have to do this on the way home, when there are more cars, because well, there are more cars at this time of day. I just get up to the front of the line, a bit ahead of the first car, on the right. There's plenty of time to get across at 3:15 PM because there's just more cars than at 6 AM. There's very few cars out at that time in the AM, even on the highway and I can clearly see when they are stopping on the yellow. If I don't do this, I will be half way across when the light turns red again. This is the only way I can go, unless I add almost 4 miles onto my commute and do a 1.5 mile climb. And at 5:30 AM, that is not what i want to do. Believe me, I am the probably one of the most risk averse person around and I am always on guard, as Lisa described. I won't even ride in the city or some of the suburbs closer to the city because of the way people drive. I did one ride last summer in the city/suburb I grew up in, which is next to Boston. I was in a cold sweat the whole time and swore I would never ride there again. The other people in the group thought I was nuts, but I prefer the country/exurbs for riding. Yes, there's traffic, but nothing what some of the other people here describe. Plus, there's tons of riders around here. The more of us drivers see, the better off we are.

[lph]

Just a general note - after riding a few years in traffic I learned to assume that the turn signals on ALL cars "don't work". Especially not on the big macho ones, they seem to be an optional extra.

Believe me, you never know when that stressed-out guy just in front of you suddenly remembers he has to pop into the store and buy toilet paper or his wife will kill him. You don't want to be next to him when it crosses his mind...

[Crankin]

Ha! Turn signals are always optional in New England. Most people don't use them, especially for changing lanes on the freeway. People here don't know how to smoothly merge into traffic either. They will come to a dead stop on a ramp and then drive way over to the right in the break down lane and push in the lane at the last minute, instead of smoothly merging in while signalling.
I expect to see all of these things while riding and driving.

[Jolt]

Yes, there's a reason why the term "M@$$holes" is often used by people from other states to describe Massachusetts drivers! We have our share of aggressive drivers as well as people just making dumb moves on the road. That said, when I drove to RI to get my bike (the seller was in Warwick), I decided the drivers there are even worse, at least on the highway.

[Torrilin]

In most of the US, the local, state and federal government specifies bikes as vehicles. That means we get all the rights that a car does, including the right to be able to cross an intersection on a green light. The following two links give MA specific examples of how an intersection can be designed to kill people.

programmed to run red?
MA intersections

Your local government can't fix the problem if they don't know it exists. If they know of the problem and don't fix it, you have better legal recourses in case you get hurt due to their negligence.

[Jolt]

Another problem at traffic-actuated lights in MA is described on this page: http://www.bikexprt.com/massfacil/no...rd/ongreen.htm. Have you ever seen the sign that says "bicycle stop on line for green"? First of all, it is poorly worded (sounds like it's asking us to stop on the line when the light is green--why would we do that?), and second, the "line" referred to often doesn't even exist on the roadway!! The idea was to have a pavement marking painted over a part of the loop that would allow a bicycle to trigger the light, but where I have seen these signs there was no such marking, and according to the page referenced above, this problem is widespread (the page gives examples mostly from the Boston area; I have seen it in Millbury and Grafton). An example of a good idea but lousy execution.