Dogs Laws and What Can Be Done?!

[maillotpois]

Maillotpois, would you agree that an amicable resolution beats legal antagonism?

Absolutely. In fact, I am trying to shift the focus of my law practice to conducting private mediations, resolving disputes as opposed to being an advocate.

But she should still follow up on the possibility of insurance.

[spokewench]

Leash laws are okay, but are rarely enforced. We have them here, but it is impossible to enforce them.

I was riding down one of the most popular mountain biking trails just outside town this weekend and there was a woman strolling around near the bottom with 5 (count them) 5 dogs off leash!

My husband just bombs right through them really fast cause it makes him mad that they are there off leash and he feels like if he hits them it is the owner's fault for being so Stupid. I slow down cause I don't want to hurt the dog or myself , but even then you never know what they are going to do when you get close to them and it is not a good feeling.

I like dogs, but this is a town where we have a lot of dogs and I hate to say it, most of the dog owners are not very responsible. Thus, the need for laws. But again, enforcement is another thing

[roadie gal]

I agree that dogs should be under a person's control and not just running wild. But... I live in a semi rural area. I have 2 big dogs that I will leash on the streets. On the trails, though, they are off leash. I keep them in sight and under voice command. If I hear someone coming I have the dogs come to my side and sit. I pull them well off the trail if a bike is coming my way. I shout ahead to ask people coming toward me if they'd be more comfortable if I leashed the dogs. If they say yes, then I do. My dogs are never allowed to just run wild.

I don't believe that universal leashing is the answer. Being a responsible dog owner IS.

[Mr. Bloom]

My personal problem is the laws that don't protect cyclists, and the overwhelming feeling of helplessness as cyclists get stuck paying for things that aren't our fault because of the carelessness and ignorance of others

Done venting.

You're right in your frustration, but keep one thing in mind:

If a kid ran out in front of a car, it would be ruled the driver's fault.

If a dog runs in front of a car, it would be ruled the driver's fault.

If a car hits anything in front of it, it is almost always the driver's fault...on the presumption that a driver should be in control based on the current road conditions and surroundings.

I am not trying to minimize your frustration, but this is an alternative perspective. [B]In your circumstance, I would do exactly as you plan.[/B]

But let me challenge your perspective a bit:

Years ago, in our county, there was an uproar because a driver of a pick-up truck hit a playing child on a rural road and killed him. Alone, that was terrible. The uproar came when the truck driver sued the child's parents for damages to his truck

This is not much different in circumstance , BUT, you would not suffer the same ridicule for suing over your damages. So, in this regard, you're in a better position than a motorist...

[Tuckervill]

Yeah, but no two people can agree on what being "responsible" is. Most people only THINK their dogs are under voice control. Only with the most obedient breeds would I ever trust voice control.

I took my dog for a walk today and a pit bull mix puppy came up to me, seemingly from out of nowhere. It was early in the morning. I looked around, knocked on a few doors, asked some passersby if they knew the dog. No luck. I took the puppy into my yard so it wouldn't get hit by a car. I watered and fed it, and let it play with my dog, and then shooed my dog inside so the pup could take a nap it clearly needed. I even made it a little pallet on the porch to sleep on. While I was pulling weeds, I asked some of the regular dog walkers if they knew the pup. No luck. One of them said she saw it out yesterday, too. Well, that's the deal closer for me. At 10, when Animal Control was open for intake, I took the puppy in.

The only reason I went to all that trouble for this pup is that I'm one of the few people home all day in the neighborhood, which means if it were to get hit by a car on my street, I'd be the one to hear or see it. I don't want to deal with that aftermath, and I would feel compelled to do so. So, depending on the dog and how I find it, I either call the vet and groomers in town to see if they know it, or take it to the shelter. A couple of times I have connected with the dog's owners by calling around to the dog people in town. They usually get a tongue lashing from me, but I try to be nice about it.

Secretly I hope the real owners never come for some of these dogs. They don't even know their dogs are getting out, or if they do, they're too lazy to do anything about it. This is where leash laws work to my advantage, because if they're off leash when they're supposed to be on, I have a legal standing for calling them in.

Karen

[Batbike]

You're right in your frustration, but keep one thing in mind:

If a kid ran out in front of a car, it would be ruled the driver's fault.

If a dog runs in front of a car, it would be ruled the driver's fault.

If a car hits anything in front of it, it is almost always the driver's fault...on the presumption that a driver should be in control based on the current road conditions and surroundings.

I am not trying to minimize your frustration, but this is an alternative perspective. [B]In your circumstance, I would do exactly as you plan.[/B]

But let me challenge your perspective a bit:

Years ago, in our county, there was an uproar because a driver of a pick-up truck hit a playing child on a rural road and killed him. Alone, that was terrible. The uproar came when the truck driver sued the child's parents for damages to his truck

This is not much different in circumstance , BUT, you would not suffer the same ridicule for suing over your damages. So, in this regard, you're in a better position than a motorist...

Challenge all you want to, but a motorized vehchile has a different set of standards than a bike -- I believe it is called a motor and a LARGE body that has protective walls ... if a dog chases a vechile, it has a better chance of getting hurt than if a dog chases a bike because the cyclist is going to get hit; same thing for a child -- car hits child ... injury/death; bike hits child ... injury/death unlikely.

BTW, I had FULL control of my bike; I had NO CONTROL of the dog that ran at top speed, jaw out, teeth clenched, within an INCH of my front wheel ... no one, and I mean no one, could have done absolutely done anything different that what I did, which was hit the uncontrolled dog. The owner, oh he was there, at the house, smoking pot and running as fast as he could when the dog attacked me. Yeah, he was responsible ... just like his dog!

As far as I am concerned, what you propose has NO merit and I don't appreciate the devil's avocate approach ... I am being nice, so please don't push the envelop ANY further than you already have because it is NOT appreciated!!

As for leash laws -- there are pros and cons to everything; we wouldn't need leash laws if people would understand the value of keeping their pets under control so that they cannot hurt others. I will not debate yes or no on leash laws, except to say that if you have a pet and you believe it should run free, make sure it is not a "loaded gun" waiting to pull the trigger on a someone.

[Mr. Bloom]

Challenge all you want to, but a motorized vehchile has a different set of standards than a bike .

You're absolutely right

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

Isn't this a discussion forum? Hmmm...I thought in discussion forums people were allowed to express various viewpoints as long as they are politely worded.

[Starfish]

Isn't this a discussion forum? Hmmm...I thought in discussion forums people were allowed to express various viewpoints as long as they are politely worded.

Here, here. Or, is it hear, hear (?).

[Batbike]

Isn't this a discussion forum? Hmmm...I thought in discussion forums people were allowed to express various viewpoints as long as they are politely worded.

The discussion is in FULL swing and everyone is being polite, civil, and stressing their point of view. Sure, some points are more emotional than others … we’re women aren’t we?!

As a woman, I can appreciate other points of view until I feel someone has crossed the line, adding insult to injury. In this case, I am injured and I feel it is very insulting to imply that an automobile and a bicycle are equal in defining accidental fault. I feel that the person who implied this preposterous perspective was trying to say that we as cyclists are at fault if we hit an attacking out-of-control animal, thus I was at fault for hitting a dog that ran into me and into my direct line of travel. Fact is, a cyclist is vulnerable to the environment in which they ride; automobiles are much more protected. However, if we are to use the automobile example, this is like saying that the deer that leaped across the road and landed on a car’s roof was the fault of the driver. Maybe the fault would be equal in this case (both a victim of an uncontrolled animal), but the injuries, property damages, and legal ramifications would be significantly different.

I am the OP. Obviously; this is a very personal, emotional, and frustrating situation for me. I wrote the OP to ask for advice, support, and a sharing of experiences. Dogs are a universal problem for cyclist! It NEVER occurred to me that a fellow cyclist would find fault in the situation and put blame on a cyclist. It is an opinion, but I will actively discuss the point and stress my distress for their perspective.

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

The discussion is in FULL swing and everyone is being polite, civil, and stressing their point of view....
....It NEVER occurred to me that a fellow cyclist would find fault in the situation and put blame on a cyclist.

I don't see those two statements as being the case here. Just my opinion.
But hey, I understand your being upset about the dog. It certainly WASN'T your fault, and I think everyone here agrees with that fact. I get livid when loose dogs come terrorizing me on my bike. I sincerely hope your situation gets a decent resolution.

[Mr. Bloom]

Bat,

I'm sorry you're mad and upset.

I truly wish you a quick recovery and a fast and easy resolution to your dispute with the dog owners.

Back to your core issue: If there was clarity provided in the law, this would be less frustrating and confusing.

I encourage you to get actively involved in fixing the law. Last September, Silver was with a rider who was struck and killed by a car. She has since started a "Share the Road" campaign that is building momentum and next week, the first signs are being installed. She feels good about it...and she's doing a good thing for everyone. I bet you can do the same thing raising awareness of leash laws

[plantluvver]

The people with the big dog are NOT bad people, but people who did not think about what a dog can do if runs free and the damage it can cause. Now that the dog has caused damage, they feel bad, but from outward appearances (and comments of police officer) they don't seem to have the financial means to fix the damages and as the current law is written, they maybe able to get away with not paying.

But your accident is an expense of their owning a dog. Leaving a dog to run free is irresponsible. Luckily (for the dog) it ran in front of you, and not a semi-truck. If these people are responsible adults, they need to be responsible for the consequences of their choice to own a dog.

I am not a lawyer, but while the dog might not be considered dangerous by the first bite law, there might be some sort of vandalism law it comes under. Make sure there is a police report, to prove the incident happened.

Mary

[bmccasland]

Last night after my bike ride, I took Nala (12-yr old Aussie Shepard) for her evening walk. The direction we headed took us by a house where a little grey terrier mutt thing (5 lbs soaking wet) who thinks its territory includes the street and is free ranging. Anyway this little scrap of a dog comes running viciously barking out from under the fence straight at us, then around in front of Nala. We're at a fast paced walk, rat-dog full tilt.... BUT it miscalculated the arch and the path crossed directly in front of Nala, who bonked the dog with her nose. The yelp that insued from rat-dog made me think Nala bit it (no great loss as far as I'm concerned), but no one was injured. Rat-dog managed to scare itself! It continued the run behind us, but no barking. I told Nala she was a good girl as we continued on our way.

[Batbike]

Animal Control declared the dog dangerous. They had a vet medically declare the dog dangerous. The dog owners did not fight the finding, agreeing, and signed the dog over to the county. The dog was euthanized under VA Dangerous Dog Statue, code 3.1-796.93:1.

How this affects any financial liability, I don't know. BUT the road is now safe for cyclists, children, and anyone else!