from this point, it might get ugly

[xeney]

I am going to suggest a slightly different approach, which is to keep the credit card option as a backup, but try to resolve it with him first. I'm with the people who think you should just return the frame -- you are in a position where you are going to need really good customer service now to make sure that you get what you ordered without having to wait a very long time, and this guy has demonstrated that he is not going to give you good customer service.

But the way I understand it, you can't dispute the credit card bill until you've given the merchant a chance to make it right. So you have to go to him first. I wouldn't, if it were me, give him the option of fixing the frame; I'd first make a list of all the things that weren't done (was the bridge moved to accommodate fenders? I didn't see if that question was answered), and then I would write him a letter listing what he said he would do vs. what he actually did, and then I would ask for a return shipping label so that you can return the frame. I would send that letter certified mail along with copies of anything you have in writing (including e-mails).

I might also e-mail or fax him a copy of the letter so that it gets there more quickly. Give him a deadline, as well: you want the return shipping label within two weeks and you expect to have your money refunded within 30 days after you return the frame. Don't be snippy or snide, just be very matter of fact. That works best in these situations.

He will probably comply. Most business people do when they get a certified letter. If not, wait out the thirty days, and then take it up with your credit card company. (You might want to call them to verify any time limits, but I am pretty sure that they are going to require you to attempt to settle the dispute with him first.)

[Eden]

And now for something totally different.....

It doesn't take away from the frustration of not getting what you asked and paid for, but...

You can put fenders on a bike without brazons. You can get speed fenders or with some creativity you can put on full fenders. We require all of our riders to have fenders in the winter and racing bikes nearly never have eyelets. I've seen some very creative jobs indeed, many involving pipe hangers or hose clamps - just be sure to protect your paint job with some electrical tape. Now if you wanted to put on racks for touring it would be a different thing, but fenders are still doable.

[Blueberry]

I do think you can dispute the charge even after it's shown up on your bill, and been paid, but I think there's a relatively short window to do so (60 or 90 days). I'd call the card company ASAP and at least give them a heads up that there's a problem and you're trying to work through it with the guy.

Good luck - it sucks to wait so long for something and then not have it be right. We went through the same with our bike fridays - the difference is that the company was horrified, and has since made it right!

*hugs*

Carrie Anne

[mimitabby]

Hey guys, just got back from my 5 mile walk with my lawyer friend. Your advice is better than hers. most of her advice had to do with what happens after all communication breaks down;
her main good point was be sure you have the bike when you are negotiating. and she talked about small claims court.

I just got off the phone with Robinson Wheel, didn't get to talk to Chris, spoke to a young sounding fellow named Tim instead. He was mystified on how Smartcycle even had an unpainted Kountach model bike, that they come from Italy already painted, that they get sent to California ...
anyway, he expressed skepticism that the bike should have brazons on it even. and like Eden, he recommended the blade fenders. . .
argh.
Tomorrow I go to Elliott Bay Bike with the frame and will present my case to them. my husband wants me to send the bike back and get a Davidson instead.
Xeney, unless they talk me into keeping the bike tomorrow; i am going to do exactly what you are suggesting. Write a letter, email it and mail it registered mail, enumerating all his broken promises and asking for my money back. and arranging to return the bike.
The one thing i am sure about is that he will not follow through so I do not want to send the bike back to him "to make it right" and have him doing his passive aggressive thing on me for months and months, while the bike hangs in the back of his shop somewhere. I will not subject myself to that bs again.

[KnottedYet]

Was Chris at lunch or something?

Tim looks older than Chris (late 40's early 50's) from what I remember, but he does have a young voice.

Remember, if you get a Mondonico from Chris like Trek did, it will be custom made for you with all your specifications (room for fenders, etc like Trisk says); rather than a modified existing frame like Mr. DumpsterDiver is trying to shove off on you.

It will take longer, but might be worth it.

[Triskeliongirl]

Was Chris at lunch or something?

Tim looks older than Chris (late 40's early 50's) from what I remember, but he does have a young voice.

Remember, if you get a Mondonico from Chris like Trek did, it will be custom made for you with all your specifications (room for fenders, etc like Trisk says); rather than a modified existing frame like Mr. DumpsterDiver is trying to shove off on you.

It will take longer, but might be worth it.

I couldn't agree more. Mimi, you have a perfectly acceptable bike you can ride right now, your veloce. TO create a dream bike takes time. Once you broker the return of this bike, you need to slow down, take a deep breath, first find a local builder you feel understands both your FIT and FUNCTION needs, and then BE PATIENT while a bike is made that meets those. Everyone I know that has done this has no regrets. Remember, you will ride a bike like this for 20 years, so even if it takes several months to start over, that is nothing compared to the years of pleasure it will give you. I noticed another thing in your email, you referred to this bike as a custom mondonico but its not a custom bike for you, whether its a custom bike for someone else's specs, or stock bike, it won't compare with a bike made for your body and your riding needs.

[mimitabby]

Was Chris at lunch or something?

Tim looks older than Chris (late 40's early 50's) from what I remember, but he does have a young voice.

It will take longer, but might be worth it.

ha, no matter what i do now it's going to take longer!

Chris was with another customer, and Tim was pleasant and respectful. Knowing his age gives him even more credibility, thanks Knot. (see that, I'm prejudiced against young men!)

Trisk, I am sure you are right, the bike needs to go back, we've re-wrapped it
so I'm not worried about hurting it by taking it to the bike shop it's in the box.

Will call the credit union on monday and see what my options are.

I know that the racing fenders aren't like real fenders, that's part of why I was still shopping for a bike. And I was going by my Physical THerapist's recommendations, that's how I arrived at that bike.

[Triskeliongirl]

I was going by my Physical THerapist's recommendations, that's how I arrived at that bike.

Did you PT have the full specs on the frame geometry before you ordered, that means the seat tube angle as well as top tube length. If he just told you that you need a bike with a certain size top tube, he may have been assuming a standard seat tube angle like 73 (this is what a fit kit does) but then you need to add a cm to the TT legnth for each degree increase in seat tube angle. Mondonicos have *VERY STEEP* seat tubes, so that I why I am worried this may still not even fit you. PLEASE try to understand this before you order you next frame. I think it is explained well here: http://www.cervelo.com/viewkb.aspx?id=00692

[KnottedYet]

Would you consider calling Chris (and talking to Chris or asking Tim to have Chris call you back when he's available) and explaining what you need in a bike, and asking if they can help you get a truly CUSTOM Mondonico with the clearance and braze-ons you want?

Tim was probably right, that you can't modify the existing frame for what you need. Mr. DumpsterDiver was probably pulling a fast one telling you he could do it for you.

Now that you are getting free of the "wrong" frame, maybe ask Chris if Mondonico can create a frame, the "right" frame, just for you?

Not modify and paint an existing pre-made frame, but make an entirely new one to meet YOUR measurements and YOUR requirements?

(Chris and Mondonico did it for Trek, I bet they could do it for you)

[Trek420]

Remember, if you get a Mondonico from Chris like Trek did, it will be custom made for you with all your specifications (room for fenders, etc like Trisk says); rather than a modified existing frame like Mr. DumpsterDiver is trying to shove off on you.

It will take longer, but might be worth it.

Knot necessarily, Knott. You can get a Mondonico or Torelli off the rack so to speak. I went full custom route because at the time i was looking for a bike Antonio the builder just happened to be in town. So why not get measured and get the custom build at no extra cost?

Otherwise I would have bought the closest frame I could and had Chris fit me.

There's been a lot of good advice on this thread but folks if you have a bike shop you love and a good wench oops, I mean wrench treasure them bake cookies, write them into your will, send flowers....good service is so important in this sport and apparently.....it's hard to find.

I feel very lucky after reading this to have several excellent shops in my area and two local ones I particularly like.

It's not the fancy custom build, over the years Chris has saved me the cost of my bike with his good sound advice: minor adjustments where I know others would sell me a new bike, his "sure, you could do this, but this is better and less expensive" approach.

And he treats my commuter with the same care as my road bike, I see he does the same for others.