from this point, it might get ugly

[7rider]

Bummer.
Perhaps "Smart Cycles" should change there name by adding "Not Too" to the front!
I would definitely talk to Visa about options. Then call Mr. Gopher/Dumpster Cleaner when you have some ammo (other than the big Nuke - a bike that doesn't meet your order).
Mom always told me "you catch more flys with honey than with vinegar" - but something tells me you're past the point of trying to sweet-talk this guy. Sounds like the only option is to send it back. Sux with these cross-country purchases.
Good luck and may better bikes (and better bike dealers) be ahead for you in the future!

[lizbids]

I don't know if it's b/c you're a woman (I hate to play the gender card, but man, it's used often!), but I find that retailers and sellers in general often give women less respect. And I can't tell how many ladies of color are out there on this forum, but people of color get it all the time too, man or woman.
They don't fulfill needs that you want, and then after giving you something you don't want, they try to talk you out of your original idea. It all depends on the person. One bike shop I went to: the guy was great, and I bought some shoes. He was friendlly and knowledgeable. The LBS is great too (well the owner es.). But then I found myself in one of the biggest stores in NYC for sports ,and the seller was a total tool. Was barely concerned with helping me and not addressing my issues. Next store: even worse! Had a seller ARGUE with me when I asked for MTB pedals for a tour rather than road. Very obnoxious and aloof.

You know though? I used to be the type to scream and yell, but now I just quietly demand and hold my ground. Once they realize you're not going away, that you WILL be that thorn in their side before they change their tune, they usually acquiesce. STAND YOUR GROUND. To me, success is reserved for those who are persistent.

[mimitabby]

I don't know if it's b/c you're a woman (I hate to play the gender card, but man, it's used often!), but I find that retailers and sellers in general often give women less respect. And I can't tell how many ladies of color are out there on this forum, but people of color get it all the time too, man or woman.

You know what though? I used to be the type to scream and yell, but now I just quietly demand and hold my ground. Once they realize you're not going away, that you WILL be that thorn in their side before they change their tune, they usually acquiesce. STAND YOUR GROUND. To me, success is reserved for those who are persistent.

Lizbids, KimmieT mentioned this also. THe way he shut me down, I am sure you're right. But he never tried to change my mind, I think he FORGOT what i wanted (and didn't write it down??!?)and then it was too late (bike already painted) so he just kept bs' ing me.
I couldn't figure out why (in his last emails to me) that he kept saying i was going to have to be CREATIVE to put fenders on it.. that's a damn far stretch from what he said in his first email;

I also have a 48cm Mondonico Women's Countach ($1099). It has a 50.5cm top tube which sounds exactly like what you are looking for. A Countach is the same thing as a Futura, except it is tig welded and not lugged. It is a very neat women's setup.

You can equip these frame with forks that will accommodate fenders no problem. The rear triangle of the frame can have braze-ons installed so you can attach racks or fenders as well...

[East Hill]

You know though? I used to be the type to scream and yell, but now I just quietly demand and hold my ground. Once they realize you're not going away, that you WILL be that thorn in their side before they change their tune, they usually acquiesce. STAND YOUR GROUND. To me, success is reserved for those who are persistent.

Yes, sometimes you have to be willing to stand there and make all their customers feel uncomfortable .

East Hill

[spokewench]

I know you want this bike so if you have the perserverence and want to wait a long time (it seems); send the bike back, with a letter in writing about what is wrong with the bike, what they said they would do and what they did not.

Then, tell them you would like it replaced with what you ordered. List everything you want in detail in the letter in writing. Ask for conformation of a price in writing for that exact bike with everything you want, plus tax if connecticut charges tax.

Also, ask for confirmation in writing for approximately how long it will take to deliver the bike that you want.

If your dumpster cleaner is not willing to give this to you in writing, when this should be standard procedure for a business, then do not deal with him. Are there any other dealers for these bikes in USA? If so, try one of them.

Get everything in writing is the key. Then you have something to hold them to. jan

[Trek420]

I don't know if it's b/c you're a woman (I hate to play the gender card, but man, it's used often!), but I find that retailers and sellers in general often give women less respect. And I can't tell how many ladies of color are out there on this forum, but people of color get it all the time too, man or woman.

Oh yeah, ask me about my cleats.

Mimi, you wanted braze ons, you were told you would get braze ons, it does not have braze ons....tell Learning-Disabled Cycles you're sending it back. You should be delighted with a Mondonico not dissapointed.

I PM'd you Chairman Bill's e-mail address juuuuuuuuust in case you need to escalate further up.

Trek-loves my Mondonico-420

[mimitabby]

Oh yeah, ask me about my cleats.

Mimi, you wanted braze ons, you were told you would get braze ons, it does not have braze ons....tell Learning-Disabled Cycles you're sending it back. You should be delighted with a Mondonico not dissapointed.

I PM'd you Chairman Bill's e-mail address juuuuuuuuust in case you need to escalate further up.

Trek-loves my Mondonico-420

Trek, thanks for the email address. I'm not sure that it will help. After all,
at this point, if he was going to make it right (and i don't believe he will,
after all he said: "I can sell this frame over and over and over....if you don't want it, it doesn't phase me at all."

he doesn't sound like the make it right kind of guy; he sounds more like
he'd just rather take it and resell it to someone else who isn't so difficult " I put more time into this sale than I usually do since you had special interests and requests."



yeppers, i have a paper trail a mile long.

[lizbids]

Some people are suggesting sending the bike back and asking for the following changes, but I think you should send the bike back with a certified letter/return receipt rejecting any charges he will put on your Visa bill. I wouldn't use this d**ckhead anymore. He's better off just taking it back, and if you have ANYTHING in writing via email, print it and save it for future legal battle. I think he will probably just give you what you want to make you go away. If not, all of us on the forum can take a little trip to Conn. and do donuts on his lawn.

[mimitabby]

LIzbids;
The visa payment charge was on my February bill. It's already paid for.

I have already printed it all out (oh, i LOVE gmail)

and What you are suggesting is just about what I was thinking... Registered
is a good idea.

[mimitabby]

PS no one from Connecticut has surfaced yet (to go visit him)

[Triskeliongirl]

LIzbids;
The visa payment charge was on my February bill. It's already paid for.

I have already printed it all out (oh, i LOVE gmail)

and What you are suggesting is just about what I was thinking... Registered
is a good idea.

I am absolutely sure you can protest a credit card charge after paying your bill. Credit card companies are great at this sort of thing, so if I were you I would phone the credti card company before I did anything else for their advice. Be simple with them, explain the item did not have the promosed specificiations and you want their help in returning it for a full refund. I would not let him make it right, because it can't be made right. You told me the fork does not have clearance for fenders. Even with a braze on, does the bridge have room for a tire to clear with fenders mounted? My impression is that this is a racing frame, and it is much harder to modify a racing frame to accept fenders, than to build the frame that way in the first place. I know this cuz I did buy a sport bike that I converted to a lite tourer, and that was when I realized these differences. If you look at a frame designed for wide tires and fenders, you'll see the bridge is higher, and the distance between the seat stays in longer. Likewise, the fork crown is higher and distance between the fork blades are also longer. Not all bikes can be retrofit and its seems like, as beautiful as this frame is, its just not a good candidate. You are lucky. You have in writing his promise that it would be fit with fender braze ons. Its not. You paid with your credit card, so your credit card company should be able to advocate for you to get a refund. Good luck, but PLEASE PLEASE return this bike and do not continue to deal with this DISHONEST man. I would also be careful about bringing it to this other shop. You don't want it damaged carting it around. You also can't say the fit is better than the bianchi without knowing the seat tube angle. I have told you this over and over and you never get it, but reach is dicated by BOTH the seat tube angle AND the top tube length. Before you decide to keep this bike you need to know EXACTLY how the reach will compare to your bianchi so you aren't disappointed again when it is built up. I would return it because even if they can put those fenders designed for racing bikes, they do not work as well as real fenders (see sheldon brown's discussion of this). You are paying a lot of money for this, and I think you will really regret it later if it doesn't have full fenders. Also, don't you want to use tires wider than 25c? Despit its aesthetic appeal, I really think this bike was a mistake for you, so use their screw up to get you out of this. I agree with your husband. If you go with a local builder, there is a real person responsible for your satisfaction. This screwed up cuz Smart Cycles sells bikes on the internet. THey don't care about repeat business, they don't care about their local community of cyclists, you are nothing to them. Whether its Davidson or that PT you went to, go to someone you can visit with, who can observe you on your veloce and see what you like and don't,who'll ask you want you want your bike to DO.

[mimitabby]

Thank you all for your wisdom. Thanks for reminding me of my Visa protection.
My visa account is actually with my credit union, so this should help too (they're very accessible)

To calm Trisk's concerns, The geometry of this bike is NOT what she found on line, it has woman's specific geometry, the top tube is 50.5 cm and the bianchi is 51.5, i measured it first thing (right after i searched for the brazeons!!)
after she asked me about the dimensions, i asked this guy what they were
and he blew me off.

But this morning I am walking with a lawyer friend. hehehehe and I will talk to her about this. I think you guys are right, I should send it back despite the fact that it's beautiful and I finally have a custom italian bike and it's even the color i wanted.


Velo, I have NO IDEA what I paid for (other than the frame and fork) because
he never sent me a bill or receipt.
I know what we TALKED about. Midway through negotiation he called me and he listed the things I wanted (which unfortunately I didn't record!!!)
and I didn't get all of those things either. so go figure.

[Trek420]

I got my Mondonico here:

www.robinsonww.com

I am very happy with it. Yes, it took a while to get the full custom bike from Italy but I had very good service.

[KnottedYet]

Mimi - If you want to do your next Mondonico thru Robinson Wheel Works (Chris is AWESOME) you and I can do a road trip or two or three down there. I'd be HAPPY to go to CA with you, and I have room inside my station wagon for a bike (your new Mondonico wouldn't even have to ride outside on a bike rack).

Let's see... one trip down for initial fitting and ordering... visit Trek
second trip down to check frame is perfect and start build.... visit Trek
third trip down to test ride and pick up bike... visit Trek

Yup, sounds great to me!

[mimitabby]

Mimi - If you want to do your next Mondonico thru Robinson Wheel Works (Chris is AWESOME) you and I can do a road trip or two or three down there. I'd be HAPPY to go to CA with you, and I have room inside my station wagon for a bike (your new Mondonico wouldn't even have to ride outside on a bike rack).

Let's see... one trip down for initial fitting and ordering... visit Trek
second trip down to check frame is perfect and start build.... visit Trek
third trip down to test ride and pick up bike... visit Trek

Yup, sounds great to me!

THanks, Knot, that's a very sweet offer. I'll let you know.
Off to see my lawyer friend for a walk, be back later!