unreasonable goals

[Veronica]

My comment about the spin class was just about his motivation. You can't do a multi day ride if you're not fit and from the original post, I'm inferring he's not. And if he hasn't been back, is he motivated?

It sounds like he doesn't have a bike yet, so he's not riding outside. If you're going from a base of nothing to riding several hundred miles in a week, in less than 4 months, he needs to get training.

Be supportive and encouraging all you want, but he has to ride the miles and they are not flat.

V.

[Bluetree]

Stacie, I think you did the right thing. One thing I expect from my friends is total honesty, even though it may not be the things I want to hear. (Yes, even if it makes me look fat.)
I hope he does prove you wrong. And me, too, since I agree with you about the reasonable-ness.

[Batbike]

i agree with those that say it COULD be too much; i agree with those that say he has time and IF he is serious and works hard, he COULD do the ride

AND I believe honesty is good, and as his friend it is important to tell him your concerns about his physical condition, the demands of the ride, and how it would be best if the "two were equal" ... then, as a friend, share your experience, encourage positive behavior, and let him figure-out the rest for himself!

i learned this from dealing with my DH -- he thought that riding a bike was no big deal, got a road bike and started riding. it only took a few rides with others to realize it wasn't as easy as he thought, and that he needed to rethink what he was doing and what he could really do ... action is an amazing teacher!

so, i say, encourage your friend to get a bike, help him get a bike, share your experience with him, say nothing else, and then let him ride ... you just NEVER know what can happen ... June is not tomorrow; June is the future, and the future is always an interesting uncertainty.

[Trek420]

Be supportive and encouraging all you want, but he has to ride the miles and they are not flat.

V.

V, I'm shocked You mean it's not all downhill to LA? But yes, the miles are not all flat.

Perhaps more important is what goes up must come down. I saw some crashes last time I think were because people focus so much on climbing skills they neglect descending skills. You can't learn that in spin class.

You need strength certainly but also skills to manage a long ride or multi day tour.

I'd better train.

[Bluetree]

V, I'm shocked You mean it's not all downhill to LA?

Trek... I hope you're not insinuating that Los Angeles is as "low as it gets"

[stacie]

thanks trek, i hadn't even realized there were difficult climbs and descents. We're still working on why you should ride with the flow of traffic. Gulp.

[Trek420]

thanks trek, i hadn't even realized there were difficult climbs and descents. We're still working on why you should ride with the flow of traffic. Gulp.

On that, don't ask or debate why, just do it.

But what gets people on the hill above is not so much that hill but it comes at the end of a 20 or so mile "warm up hill". So you climb and climb and come around a corner, look up and

Check out the calves on the gal walking

These are not weak people "cross training".

And of course any self propelled forward motion counts ;-)

There's debate between the techie people before and after the ride, I've read figures anywhere from 18,000 to 26,000 feet of climbing (and descending of course. We start and end at sea level so...).

There are harder individual rides out there. I think some of V's doubles have more climbing than that.

But what gets you is the back to back to backness on a multi day tour.

Do a century, do another, do another, do another in a red dress, do ....

Of course there's no shame in taking the SAG wagon and none will fault your friend.

But I train and plan and eat to ride every mile.

Once again, there is nothing wrong on any day with doing your best and taking the SAG wagon.

I've done that myself a few times and will again I'm sure.

But if I wanted a bus ride to LA I'd go Greyhound.

The website says "ride to end AIDS" and I think that should be ones training goal.

Stacie, PM me and feel free to have your friend contact me

Trek - CAR4 crew, Rider ALC 3, 4 & now 6, Training ride leader ALC 5 8-)

[maillotpois]

The website says "ride to end AIDS" and I think that should be ones training goal.

Rock on!

We're currently coaching a group for the Leukemia Society's Team in Training program for the Tour of the California Alps/Death Ride. www.deathride.com

That is an unreasonable goal for a lot of folks and will push the people on our team farther than they would have thought they could go. But it's pretty cool how having a goal outside yourself can be motivating.

[KSH]

Of course there's no shame in taking the SAG wagon and none will fault your friend.

Let me ask this... is the AIDS ride more about raising money and awarenes... vs. "You must make the entire distance"?

It is like the MS150... where SAG wagons are full and around you at all times?

I went into my first MS150 with poor training, and pain in my kness. Unfortunately, I wasn't sure how much I needed to train... but the little training I did... I was mashing my pedals.

So, my first MS150 was a MS65. But it was fine. I took a SAG wagon. I still raised the money and that is what mattered.

If this is the case with the AIDS ride... then why not back off your friend a little... reality will hit him when he starts riding. Why not help him raise money for a good cause instead?

[Trek420]

Meanwhile over in Treks head;

First off this probably came off pretty harsh. What's an unreasonable goal? We have riders right here recovering from injury, one TE'er training to walk 6 miles MS walk with a walker, our first time commuters .... we all remember that first ride, first Tri, first long run and someone who encouraged us.

My first AIDS ride I lucked into a tentmate, Kathy Mc (Kath? are you lurking? I know you're on BJ) a 6 time rider.

As we headed for our bikes on Day 1 she told me "your goal today is just_ride_safely. Some of these riders have never turned a pedal outside."

Sure 'nough as we stood ready to go a rider next to me, wearing track shorts and tennis shoes, with a Trek Madone said "How do I shift this thing? Where are the brakes?"

More about this rider and his success later, I gotta get to work

[stacie]

I'll do that Trek.
There seems to be the idea that I am just berating my friend over his goal. I told him my concerns and then said I would support him. When he finds a bike that interest him, I help him with questions to ask and things to consider. I don't just give him negative information. I've directed him to used bikes locally. I do try to be a realist. Today he said he would have 300 to buy a bike after plane fare and such. I told him he needed to consider the other essentials he would need. He hadn't considered buying other things. I'm making a list of things that are absolutely necessary and things that would be nice to have. I have no intention of trying to talk him out of this. He's intent on doing it. I'll give him as much information as I can to help him develop confidence on the road.
I recently told someone who had only ran 10 miles that they would not finish a marathon, at least not running. Well, he had a faster time than me. I'm conservative. I believe in being prepared for an event. I guess my natural ability is such that it alone won't carry me through. I have to work at it.
s

[Trek420]

... so where was I? Right, newbie rider, track shorts over sweats tennis shoes and clips brand new $3k road bike and helmet.

Ride starts, we get moving .... then and now I'm a slow/steady reliable metric rider, I'd never done a century before but experienced.

So I'm staying the he}} outa his way.

Day 1, day 2....day 6, day 7 there's this guy plugging along right with me.

He did every mile I sagged part of day 7, and bonked day 3.

Then next year ..... whoops, lunch is over

[Trek420]

... where was I?

Oh right, Madona guy as far as I know did every mile where as your's truly did not.

I hit the spin class, weights, learn from TE gals and sign up for next year. Day one and guess who's back? Madona guy (I'm horrid at names, he is too.

He called me "Mermaid gal" for the mermaid on my helmet ).

He's fitter, trimmer and now he's clipless and he's got bike shorts and gear.

The bike still does not fit well, his shop obviously just went "here's shoes and pedals" and did not make adjustments for the fit.

Last year at least it fit, didn't know where the brakes are but it fit.

We talk in the back of the pack, that's where the fun is. He wears pictures on his helmet of three family members he's lost.

I'm faster now and stronger then, but so is he!

I ride every mile but 10 .... and I bet he did every mile.

I don't know how he did last year, but I saw him at registration and he looked great.

So guess I'm saying there's no telling.

I lead training rides last year and it's very tough to get people from "where's the brakes " to "shift now, no not now, not the front brake use both, lean here, scoot back, point your knee, clip out early, drink more, eat now...." in a few months.

It's best for all including the safety of others if they take more time and get lots of miles in.

Just because it can and has been done with less for the safety of the ride I have to say I feel he should get more experience.

"Madona guy" was riding for his family, he would never give up.

I'm not sure that seeing Logos movie* 7 days to End AIDS film would take you through that.

* I take it that's what he saw.

[Geonz]

I'll do that Trek.
There seems to be the idea that I am just berating my friend over his goal. I told him my concerns and then said I would support him. When he finds a bike that interest him, I help him with questions to ask and things to consider. I don't just give him negative information. I've directed him to used bikes locally. I do try to be a realist. Today he said he would have 300 to buy a bike after plane fare and such. I told him he needed to consider the other essentials he would need. He hadn't considered buying other things. I'm making a list of things that are absolutely necessary and things that would be nice to have. I have no intention of trying to talk him out of this. He's intent on doing it. I'll give him as much information as I can to help him develop confidence on the road.
I recently told someone who had only ran 10 miles that they would not finish a marathon, at least not running. Well, he had a faster time than me. I'm conservative. I believe in being prepared for an event. I guess my natural ability is such that it alone won't carry me through. I have to work at it.
s

It sounds to me like you're concerned about not only whether this goal is reasonable or not, but whether it's part of a fundamentally unhealthy thought and habit pattern. He can channel his concerns about fitness, etc. on this "venture" - without actually *doing* anything. I'm sure there's a clinical term for it... and if it's a typical pattern ... I can understand not wanting to join in the rah-rahs. (If it's not, then I'd still be honest and hope he learned from it. If it *is,* I'd be trying to scheme ways to set up his trains of thought so that somehow the real thing might teach him something - but is he likely to find a way to back out of it at the last minute?)

When he talks about it, I would focus on replies that invovle opportunities for exercise right now ... or show him web sites about riding in groups that way you're being supportive, but supportive of more important things than A Long Ride.

[stacie]

Yes, that's a big part of it sue. It's exciting to belong to something as special as the aids ride. We all want to be a part of something. It's also much easier to put my focus on something like this rather than addressing the real issue of developing a healthy lifestyle.