Should Men be allowed in a Women's Forum?

[SouthernBelle]

Basically, I have no problem with Mr. Silver being here. He's here by invitation and has kept his testerone in check. But overall, I prefer that this forum stay mostly women.

I think there are reasonable exceptions. For example, if George Hincapie, whose company manufactures cycling clothing, came here with women's clothing questions and decided to stay because he enjoyed the cycling discussions, I'm OK with that.

But if a guy or guys, cyclist or not, comes here with no reasonable connections to the board, I think we would eventually lose what differentiates this board from other cycling boards. There are subjects discussed freely here that would disappear.

[jeannierides]

Well, I have to add my .02 as well. We all appreciated the updates on Silver, and we all did welcome Mr. Silver... to a point... we DO discuss things on this "Women's Forum" that we'd rather not have a male interject... whether it's tampons, whether to wear thongs or how much weight we've gained... sometimes having a man around to put in his two cents... well, sometimes isn't ok. You gals are right that he has been mostly polite and we've encouraged him... and maybe we've misled him into thinking he could be *the* man on the TE board?? I dunno. I somewhat agree with Queen, and mostly agree with Trek on the hijacked thread....
I have very mixed feelings...

[Kitsune06]

I've been privy to very differing views on this subject, and while I think all are very well-thought out and can see the reasoning, I must post with my input.

I am uncomfortable with gentlemen on this forum in general. This is a women's space, the "Women's Cycling Discussion Forums" as it were. The way I'm seeing past opinions etc as it were is mentally doing a complete role reversal. If I were a woman on "Team Testosterone- the Men's Cycling Discussion Forum" I can't imagine I'd have much to say, but were I married, I'd possibly be into looking up possible answers for my husband, given possible issues he had- though if he were a member as well, I don't know that I could help much.
I don't know if I could contribute very successfully either.

I don't want this to become a precident. In the past, the loving hubbies of most TE members will occasionally, rarely post, and they're great guys. But they respect the formerly unspoken boundaries we have here. They've rarely tarried long.

All that said,

I cannot knowingly be part of any sort of discrimination. To single out, (sorry) Mr. Silver has been very polite. He's been respectful, and open. Such can *not* be said for many of our previous male visitors. Perhaps this is why he's been so well accepted.

So to sum it up, while I don't want this to be a lasting thing, and wish men would in general respect what had previously been unspoken, I cannot fairly say that he 'should leave'. He will in his due time... and until that happens, he's a good guy and we should treat him as such, however we are unnerved by his presence and what it may mean for the future of TE.

[Brandi]

I do not have a problem with mr Silver! And if he becomes a problem then i am sure it will be taken care of (Vito will pay him a visit ). But I don't think to much of it until he becomes rude. But hey we can be just as rude too. Just my opinion.

[HipGnosis6]

Hoo boy... this is bound to get me in trouble, but I just can't keep my mouth shut.

So... the opposing side, while nobody's being horrible and demanding a ban on all men, seems to be saying "we're uncomfortable with a man in our 'locker room'. We deserve our own space."

Just the other day, I was witness to a really shameful scene. I was touring a gym that I was considering joining, and while I was there there was a sudden and very large stir. One of the members had found out that one of the trainers there was *gasp* a lesbian, and the idea that this woman might see her naked in the locker rooms made her uncomfortable. She had never been uncomfortable before, but once she found out that someone there was different from her, she had anxiety and fear.

I'm not sure how your fear and discomfort of men, even when they're showing themselves to be behaving appropriately, is any different. Inappropriate behavior on the forums is just that - inappropriate, no matter who it's coming from, and needs to be dealt with on an issue-by-issue basis and not on one that's discriminatory and originates in fear. Where I don't feel discomfited by Mr. Silver's presence here, I have to tip my hat to Kitsune for being the first to say that banning him simply because he's a man is in fact SEXIST and a form of discrimination.

Part of what I think makes TE different is that we don't discriminate. We all work to make everyone feel welcome, whether they're hardcore roadies or older ladies on their cruisers but right now we're talking about who's NOT welcome! I'm a little shocked by it; we are a fairly diverse group and I've never witnessed anything worse than a couple of snotty comments.

We don't have serious problems with harassment or with men invading our space; we don't hang a sign on our door that says "NO BOYZ", and therefore it's no fun to come bug us. Those few that do show up are met with little interest at best. The day we lay down the law is the day we ask for people to protest our negative and exclusionary behavior.

[Veronica]

Since this a public forum, you never know who could be reading. There could be lots of men out there who are just having a grand ole time over the diva cup or Brazilian waxes. AND never say that they are here.

Lots of things posted by WOMEN here make me uncomfortable. It doesn't keep me from posting or reading. It doesn't mean the topics shouldn't be posted. I am pleased with the Ignore Thread feature because I can now ignore those threads more easily. I don't want to ignore the posters, because in other threads I've valued their comments.

Heck, I could be a man for all some of you know.

V.

[Triskeliongirl]

One thing this thread did is make me realize is that despite being of the same gender how really different we are from each other. While some women are uncomfortable with men posting here (remember they can always lurk and read, so its posting we are talking about) other women find the sheer thought of engaging in the form of discrimination that was proposed, gender bias, extremely offensive. Someone on the original thread posted about not understanding why straight people might come into a gay bar. Its cuz they have empathy with the people there; they feel more like they belong there than in straight clubs that conform to different cultural biases and stereotypes. Obvisouly some men feel that here. Who are we to judge. Its like judging someone for simply being who they are, whether who they are is gay, straight, transgendered, or whatever. As long as the focus here remains issues of interest to women cyclists, who are we to ban a guy that shares our interests.

[Popoki_Nui]

Who are we to judge. **** As long as the focus here remains issues of interest to women cyclists, who are we to ban a guy that shares our interests.

I was about to say exactly the same thing. While I would prefer a women-only group, this simply isn't possible on the anonymous WWW. Things I feel uncomfortable discussing in the presence of guys, I simply don't post here. It is a little limiting, for sure. But otherwise, as long as the guys here remain respectful (as I believe Mr Silver has), and the focus is on women's issues WRT cycling, then I'm fine with it.


~Sherry.

[snapdragen]

Very well said HipGnosis!

[mimitabby]

and now i'll be the devil's advocate. Can you imagine the guys trying to have a "guys only" forum?

[Blueberry]

and now i'll be the devil's advocate. Can you imagine the guys trying to have a "guys only" forum?

There would undoubtedly be threats of a lawsuit...

[Blueberry]

I say men should be allowed so long as they contribute to the discussion and don't say overtly offensive things.

As V said, this is an open discussion board. A few of you know me in real life - many don't. Sometimes that's best for being able to discuss certain things (sore crotch issues, diva cups), but it is a *public* forum. Men can certainly read it, and never make their presence known.

Some choose to post - like Mr. Silver - and offer insightful and witty comments from sometimes a different perspective. We talk about lots of things other than cycling here (the interviewing thread comes to mind) and in that context, another perspective should be welcome!

I'd be a little suspicious if a male started giving me advice (or posting) to a diva cup thread. Short of that, and so long as their tone is generally in keeping with that of the boards, why not allow them?

[Wahine]

Well, I have to agree with Hip. I don't think we can ban men, that's discrimination and this is a public forum. Nor would we be able to police the entry of men into the forum. It's not practical and if we tried and they wanted to be here they could just lurk and pretend to be female. I'd rather have them be open about it so that I can have a sense of who's on the thread. Not that it makes a difference to me, I'll say whatever the heck I want in front of a guy anyway. If it grosses them out and they leave so be it.

If someone behaves inappropriately they need to be removed, regardless of gender.

Besides, we sort of have a built in macho-man barrier - none of those types would be caught dead on a discussion group called Team Estrogen. With a name like this it's likely that only the nice guys in touch with their feminine side, like Mr. Silver, are likely to enter in.

I didn't say anything here that other's haven't. Just wanted to throw in my vote per say.

[Irulan]

Hoo boy... this is bound to get me in trouble, but I just can't keep my mouth shut.

So... the opposing side, while nobody's being horrible and demanding a ban on all men, seems to be saying "we're uncomfortable with a man in our 'locker room'. We deserve our own space."

Just the other day, I was witness to a really shameful scene. I was touring a gym that I was considering joining, and while I was there there was a sudden and very large stir. One of the members had found out that one of the trainers there was *gasp* a lesbian, and the idea that this woman might see her naked in the locker rooms made her uncomfortable. She had never been uncomfortable before, but once she found out that someone there was different from her, she had anxiety and fear.

I'm not sure how your fear and discomfort of men, even when they're showing themselves to be behaving appropriately, is any different. Inappropriate behavior on the forums is just that - inappropriate, no matter who it's coming from, and needs to be dealt with on an issue-by-issue basis and not on one that's discriminatory and originates in fear. Where I don't feel discomfited by Mr. Silver's presence here, I have to tip my hat to Kitsune for being the first to say that banning him simply because he's a man is in fact SEXIST and a form of discrimination.

Part of what I think makes TE different is that we don't discriminate. We all work to make everyone feel welcome, whether they're hardcore roadies or older ladies on their cruisers but right now we're talking about who's NOT welcome! I'm a little shocked by it; we are a fairly diverse group and I've never witnessed anything worse than a couple of snotty comments.

We don't have serious problems with harassment or with men invading our space; we don't hang a sign on our door that says "NO BOYZ", and therefore it's no fun to come bug us. Those few that do show up are met with little interest at best. The day we lay down the law is the day we ask for people to protest our negative and exclusionary behavior.

best response.

[Irulan]

I think banning men is as dumb as secret forums.
I think it was said, how are you going to enforce it, what do you do about the lurkers, and how do you know that there aren't men posting anyway that you don't know are men?

If they can't handle the talk ( ie tampons and other women's issues) they can stay away, and if they troll or are rude, let the moderators deal with it, that's what they are there for. Otherwise they should be welcomed, or at least not run off by seperatist attitudes.

my issues with secret forums is that I think they are a bad idea for the following reasons: 1. It shows the moderators can't control their boards and 2. a lot of potential contributing members are lost because they don't know it's there, or they have to prove themselves to become a member.

I like how they do it at MTBR and RBR, women's boards, open to men, heavily moderated, offenders get one warning and then they are banned. There are great guys who contribute to those boards.

back to lurking.