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[Geonz]

the sidewalk thing: if it is ILLEGAL to ride on the sidewalk, then I say don't do it because it is a TERRIBLE way to represent the sport of cycling! if it is LEGAL and the BEST METHOD to get from point A to point B, then use it because that makes you a VERY WISE cyclist!

Welp, it's legal. I'm still rolling my eyes at your condescension - actually, I have no reason to assume you train harder than I do and are "more of a cyclist" even by *your* definition. My 8o00+ miles last year didn't all come on the sidewalks.

But... here's the bigger issue:

I really love cycling - and not just so I can win things. I think it can improve the whole planet and so many of the people in it.

Are you assuming that I like (or even accept) the fact that to keep my skin, I have to negotiate sidewalks instead of being reasonably safe on the roads? If that's why you hold sidewalkers in contempt... what are you doing about it?

I mean, besides being condescending to people riding on the sidewalks?

Does that make the roads safer? Do you honestly think that brings those people out onto the roads?

No, in fact, it makes those sidewalker think "oh, okay, I'm just not *brave* enough for this. They are. Must be something wrong with me, not with the way the roads are designed. I can't expect better. Roads were made for cars."

Yes, one of the reasons I don't like riding on the sidewalk is because I don't like the message it sends to drivers or other cyclists or possible future cyclists.

I'm on our town's Bicycling and Pedestrian Advisory commission, I'm on the board of the League of Illinois Bicyclists; I write letters, I've been on the telly. ...but more than all that, IMO, I *ride* visibly and often, and do my utmost to get others to do so by leading beginner rides and just being a "normal" person who rides a bicycle to show it's a feasible option.

I want our roads to be places where cyclists can ride safely and efficiently. Right now that ain't the case. Some places, it is for people who have the courage and conviction and speed to negotiate the traffic - but so many, many people think that there's no need to make the roads safe for cyclists. They think that there's no reason to divert funds or inconvenience motorists for a bunch of Lance wannabees - let's face it, we wouldn't do that for hockey players, would we? Why should the public support your recreational pursuit?

I love cycling . I think it can do far more good than the benefits that athletics provide. There are so many current Stupid Problems that bicycling helps with, either a little or a lot, either individually (health) or societally (let's slow down and talk to each other!) or environmentally, or.. or..

HOwever, cyclists are a barely significant minority - even here. On the third hand, I talk to so many people who would *love* to ride more, either for fitness or instead of driving - but there are barriers.

Do you want to be one of those barriers?




... my most recent motorbiker interaction: pulled up to the Blarney Stone (only place for food in Ivesdale) as three motorbikes pulled up.
"Lance!"
We just grinned, went in... and then met the same group at teh Sadorus Pub which was our next stop... yea, our ration of riding to drinking was a little higher than theirs

[guest1]

Welp, it's legal. I'm still rolling my eyes at your condescension - actually, I have no reason to assume you train harder than I do and are "more of a cyclist" even by *your* definition. My 8o00+ miles last year didn't all come on the sidewalks.

But... here's the bigger issue:

I really love cycling - and not just so I can win things. I think it can improve the whole planet and so many of the people in it.

Are you assuming that I like (or even accept) the fact that to keep my skin, I have to negotiate sidewalks instead of being reasonably safe on the roads? If that's why you hold sidewalkers in contempt... what are you doing about it?

I mean, besides being condescending to people riding on the sidewalks?

Does that make the roads safer? Do you honestly think that brings those people out onto the roads?

No, in fact, it makes those sidewalker think "oh, okay, I'm just not *brave* enough for this. They are. Must be something wrong with me, not with the way the roads are designed. I can't expect better. Roads were made for cars."

Yes, one of the reasons I don't like riding on the sidewalk is because I don't like the message it sends to drivers or other cyclists or possible future cyclists.

I'm on our town's Bicycling and Pedestrian Advisory commission, I'm on the board of the League of Illinois Bicyclists; I write letters, I've been on the telly. ...but more than all that, IMO, I *ride* visibly and often, and do my utmost to get others to do so by leading beginner rides and just being a "normal" person who rides a bicycle to show it's a feasible option.

I want our roads to be places where cyclists can ride safely and efficiently. Right now that ain't the case. Some places, it is for people who have the courage and conviction and speed to negotiate the traffic - but so many, many people think that there's no need to make the roads safe for cyclists. They think that there's no reason to divert funds or inconvenience motorists for a bunch of Lance wannabees - let's face it, we wouldn't do that for hockey players, would we? Why should the public support your recreational pursuit?

I love cycling . I think it can do far more good than the benefits that athletics provide. There are so many current Stupid Problems that bicycling helps with, either a little or a lot, either individually (health) or societally (let's slow down and talk to each other!) or environmentally, or.. or..

HOwever, cyclists are a barely significant minority - even here. On the third hand, I talk to so many people who would *love* to ride more, either for fitness or instead of driving - but there are barriers.

Do you want to be one of those barriers?




... my most recent motorbiker interaction: pulled up to the Blarney Stone (only place for food in Ivesdale) as three motorbikes pulled up.
"Lance!"
We just grinned, went in... and then met the same group at teh Sadorus Pub which was our next stop... yea, our ration of riding to drinking was a little higher than theirs

Good for you! I am sure you are proud of what you have accomplished and what you do as a cycling advocate. However, I sure hope your crown doesn't hurt your head TOO badly when you wear your cycling helmet!

[Geonz]

Good for you! I am sure you are proud of what you have accomplished and what you do as a cycling advocate. However, I sure hope your crown doesn't hurt your head TOO badly when you wear your cycling helmet!

Okay, okay, climbing down from my *own* little "I'm higher than you" elevation

Pax

[snapdragen]

Good for you! I am sure you are proud of what you have accomplished and what you do as a cycling advocate. However, I sure hope your crown doesn't hurt your head TOO badly when you wear your cycling helmet!

Okay, okay, climbing down from my *own* little "I'm higher than you" elevation

Pax

Well thank goodness, I thought I was going to have to put on my moderator crown....er hat.

[Eden]

Little anecdote:

Around here there was a rather tragic situation that emphasized who is a cyclist? A woman downtown was pushed under a bus and killed. The first reports that came out were that it was a cyclist riding on the side walk that caused the woman to fall. So what did everyone immediately think? It must have been one of those crazy messengers - see we told you cyclists were dangerous etc. Well when the whole story was reported it came out that the man and woman were having an arguement when he shoved her and she fell under the bus. The man then grabbed a bike from someone else and rode off to flee the scene. The media continued to report it as a cyclist killing a pedestrian. Was he a cyclist or a man with a bike? Could he have been both at different times?

Sometimes the different groups of cyclists around here tiff a bit over who is more justified to be on the road - whether or not we should have a helmet law (which was recently enacted) and who bike laws have the most effect on. In the end we just need to realize that cyclists are a varied community. We all have varied and valid reasons for riding a bike and no we aren't all going to automatically be friends or agree, but at least we can respect those who choose our mode of transportation. Who knows maybe next year that person who was afraid to venture off of the sidewalk will buy a new road bike and get the confidence to go out on the road. Maybe when I'm 98 1/2 and riding a tricycle I'll want to stay on the sidewalk and not ride faster than a walk..

[mimitabby]

Little anecdote:

Around here there was a rather tragic situation that emphasized who is a cyclist? A woman downtown was pushed under a bus and killed. The first reports that came out were that it was a cyclist riding on the side walk that caused the woman to fall. So what did everyone immediately think? It must have been one of those crazy messengers - see we told you cyclists were dangerous etc. Well when the whole story was reported it came out that the man and woman were having an arguement when he shoved her and she fell under the bus. The man then grabbed a bike from someone else and rode off to flee the scene. The media continued to report it as a cyclist killing a pedestrian. Was he a cyclist or a man with a bike? Could he have been both at different times?
.

Good grief, Eden, i followed that story and never heard these details!!

[missymaya]

Roguedog,
Those are my thoughts exactly! We are pretty darn lucky to be able to discuss the definition of a "cyclist" and anything it entails and be able to do what we love to do, ride, as a hobbie and/or form of transportation, health, etc. I think someone already mentioned it, bicycle mag had an article, Invisible Riders, which is pretty good.
As for the PM, I take communicating through the net simarly to communicating to someone in person, it's just not cool to be insulting and offensive, in order to defend your argument. If someone has a problem with what's been said, politely confront and discuss the issue. No need to create more hate and anger; this world doesn't need anymore!
Remember, we're on this forum b/c we all relate in one particular subject: cycling, riding, bicycling, or whatever you wanna call it!

[Kimmyt]

I'd like to point something out about the media referring to people as 'cyclists' that perhaps they shouldn't:

One of my other hobbies is rock climbing. (I hesitate to say I'm a climber. I don't think of myself as one). There are always news stories about people at (usually) local crags that fall to their deaths.

The news stories refer to them as climbers.

Many times, these 'climbers' are actually people who are scrambling up on the rock and have no business being there. They are kids fooling around without realizing the danger, hikers who think that surely their feet won't slip. They are not climbers.

Or are they? The media calls them that, and so climbing may get more bad press... local areas may begin to have access issues.

I'm just saying that calling something or someone by a name does not mean that they necessarily are one. Whats that famous saying about the rose?? It happens in lots of sports.

K.

[Tuckervill]

I reserve the right to define myself by any label that furthers my aims.

Conversely, I reserve the right to refuse a label that prevents me from being fully equal or makes me less than.

In other words, I reserve the right to self-determination.

Karen