Church?

[Crankin]

I find this discussion fascinating. I notice not too many non-Christian religions speaking up, so even though I already said something, I will open up my big mouth. Most American Jews are not religious or observant. I would say that I'm religious, but not observant. My temple is consiously independent, i.e. is not formally associated with one of the 3 major branches of Judaism. This is a financial burden, but we like it this way. No one can tell us how to think! Our rabbi, who has been with the congregation 30 years, started as a lay leader. he was a psychologist first, and then at great personal expense, commuted to NYC to go to school and become ordained. What I like about Judaism is that a congregation doesn't need a rabbi to be a congregation.
I was raised totally unreligiously, in a predominantly Jewish suburb. I learned what I could from my friends and my boyfriend's family in particular. I always joke that my family likes to think they came over on the Mayflower... I got more religiously active when I moved to a place where I was more of a minority. When it came time to raise my kids, we decided that we would not be hypocrites, so instead of just sending the kids to a JCC preschool, we became active there and more observant. It was wonderful and it continued through their school years. They both had Bar Mitzvahs and went through to confirmation in 10th grade. I know it's "in there." My son in the Marines has put up with a lot of crap for his religion, but he gives it right back. He goes to services pretty frequently and I am proud of him for this. My other son has a serious girlfriend who isn't Jewish and is introducing her to aspects of the religion. It's interesting to see how he is dealing with this.
Well, just my .02. I don't want to change my religion, but right now I'd rather be on my bike than at services or volunteering.

[bcipam]

ive deepest respect for people that really feel this force of spirituality,im not trying to be bloody minded but i stopped going to church as soon as my parents let me off the hook,is it a dying phenomenon?what is the average age of church goers?and do people tend to do more for charity these days which is prob worth a lotta weight in the great scheme of things,and almost like a religion,if you see what i mean.......

Its interesting my folks live in Mississippi. My dad attends a very old methodist church. Very traditional. I would say the average age is 65 - 70 and the congregation is dying.

My Church has a huge youth ministry. The average adult age I would say is 35 - 40. It's a very young church. Where I live (Southern California) many churches are active youth ministries. It's become very popular here to be Christian. CHruch have made it a point to approach services with a youthful viewpoint. Look at the worship music. Downright Rock or Alternative!

Here in Orange County we have several mega churches - Rick Warren's SAddleback is one and my church - COast Hills is another. Churches are growing not slowing, at least here where I live.

[Dianyla]

Well, since cycling is one of my religions... then as far as I'm concerned a Sunday ride counts as a sacrament.

[slinkedog]

I am a consistent church-goer. I, like Pam, attend a non-denominational Christian church. I, like many of you, grew up Catholic, but was drawn to the message of my church: that God loved me and wanted to be close to me; that he had dreams and plans for me that he wanted to make real in my life. I didn't feel condemned for the mess I had made of my life, either. I found my Catholic church to be rather rigid and impersonal, but in hindsight, I wonder if I had been willing to become more involved, if I might have felt differently.

In any case, I love God, but in many ways I don't understand him. I went through a time in the last year where I was very frustrated with the "Christian-ese" answers to the hard questions of life. A few months back I was in a meeting with a guy from a church in So. California who was a Pulitzer Prize winning journalist. This guy could take the most complex idea and make it like crystal. We were discussing what are some of the major turn-offs for people regarding church, and one of them was patness, or the idea of having a bunch of pat answers for everything. He said, "God puts a premium on mystery. It's okay not to understand him. We've got to become comfortable with that idea." That was a watershed moment for me. I felt free to be comfortable with not understanding the whys and wherefores of everything.

So, that's where I'm at on my personal spiritual journey. Faith seeking understanding. I believe, but I don't get it all yet. It's a good place and I'm having fun seeking.

[Bad JuJu]

This Sunday morning I spent cycling through the crisp air in the sun past golden dry fields of whispering grasses, side by side with the one I love. It was so beautiful an experience it was like spiritual and uplifting. We discussed it together and he and I agreed that this oneness with the beauty of Nature and our own minds and bodies was like our religion. It makes us humble and grateful and able to love other human beings too. It strengthens us inside and out, and comforts us in times of sorrow. It aligns one's molecules into harmonious patterns somehow. And isn't that what it's all about?

I've felt the same kind of awe and humility in breathtaking natural surroundings. And I think we can appreciate natural beauty and nature's remarkable workings without always and only ascribing them to a mystical creator. The world is wondrous in itself--the way two rudimentary cells can combine and change to make a sentient being, the way life forms have developed to fill every possible niche in nature, the way tides ebb and flow, seasons change (or don't change, depending on where you live)--I could go on and on. I've written briefly about this wonder on my blog, if you care to read it:
On Wonder--It Is What It Is
We all see different things in nature, but we should try to realize that most of what we see depends on what we've been taught to see.

[HappyAnika]

"I'd rather be climbing a mountain thinking about God than sitting in a church thinking about climbing a mountain"

I saw that on a hiking forum and I really liked it. For the sake of this forum we can replace "climbing a mountain" with "riding my bike" (unless of course you like to climb mountains on your bike . . .).

I'm not religious myself, I'm more with the spiritual nature-loving crowd. I like to be outdoors to experience the connectedness of living things with nature.

[snapdragen]

My family stopped going to church (Calvin Presbyterian) when I was very young. Mom was at some kind of a social thing, a tea perhaps, when, as she put it "one of the good church ladies" made a remark about the church allowing "those people" in. "Those people" were African Americans. Mom left, and announced we would never be back.

[btchance]

Years ago, I attended Temple during the High Holy Days with my then-BF. It was a progressive/reformist rabbi (a woman) and one of the topics for discussion was whether to continue services (it was at the Beverly Hills Hotel ballroom) when hotel workers may stage a strike outside for better wages.

She told this story:
A rabbi was on his way to Temple one day, and heard a baby crying. Looking into a window, he saw an unattend babe. He went in, and held the baby until it stopped crying and went to sleep. Meanwhile, all the townspeople were at the synagogue waiting for him. He never showed. After a while, they became upset and went frantically in search of him, wondering what happened. When they finally found him, sitting with a sleeping baby, they became angry at him for causing them to miss their services over such an insignificant event. He looked at them and said, "This child was in need and I came to help. Have you learned nothing from me? The acts of God and more important than the Words of God."

After the rabbi told the story, she explained that regardless of where one stood on the proposed strike, it was important to acknowledge the struggles of people fighting for a better life for themselvs and their families. And as Jews, they should all recognize that.
With that, she announced that should the strike happen, she would not cross the picket lines. She said, "If we have to, we'll pray on the beach in front of the ocean. It doesn't matter what building is above our heads, God can hear us. But always, Acts of Godliness are paramount."
I still remember that after all these years.
BTW, The strike was settled, and averted.

I love that, and it is so true.

I never went to church, but was always taught the correct way to treat other people, and to see the spirituality in the world around us. However, my hometown is extremely religious (14 square miles, over 20 churches in that area, maybe more than 30). If you didn't go to the correct church, many parent's wouldn't allow their kids to have anything to do with you. Their whole lives revolved around church and church functions. This made it very difficult growing up, going to parties, going shopping or to the movies, dating, and even discussions at lunch. This still puts a negative light on organized religion for me. I know it's not like that in other areas, but it, and my always questioning nature, makes it hard for me to have any desire to participate in church activities. I know it is a huge part of life for many people, and I'll always respect it, as long as they respect me for who I am and what I believe.

(eh, I hope this all came out right, and makes some element of sense)

[slinkedog]

I know it's not like that in other areas, but it, and my always questioning nature, makes it hard for me to have any desire to participate in church activities. I know it is a huge part of life for many people, and I'll always respect it, as long as they respect me for who I am and what I believe.

(eh, I hope this all came out right, and makes some element of sense)

Nothing wrong with a questioning nature in church, imho. If there's something wrong with it, then I need to get out, I guess.

All kidding aside, I do respect everyone's right to believe what they believe. Who the heck am I to think I can tell someone else what to think? All I know is that God (not church) kept me from killing myself, andthe good people in that church who loved me, just as I was, helped a lot.

[CR400]

I go to church almost every Sunday morning and evenings as well. Plus the mid week service on Thursday. I have gone to church all my life. I go not because I feel that I have to out of some religous duty but because I want to.

When I do ride on Sunday it is usually between services, or I will plan my rest days for Sunday and Thursday. We actually have a small group along with a race team at my church so we get in our road time it just isn't usually on Sunday. In fact my pastor is one of the biggest hammerheads I know, he does quite well in the races we do, for him 12+ races in a season is average. I'm still new so I don't race as often as the others. Usually we race on Saturday only but about two to three times a year we will all go to a sunday race or TT. We also host our own charity rides and one day tours.

Besides everytime I have missed church to ride my bike I have got into an accident, mostly small over the handle bar stuff, but still.

[Grog]

Besides everytime I have missed church to ride my bike I have got into an accident, mostly small over the handle bar stuff, but still.

Wow! Then it's probably better you don't loose faith!!!

[tygab]

Interesting topic indeed. I'm with Robyn, well indirectly anyway.
I was raised Jewish in central Illinois, so even though I was part of a thriving synogogue in town, I remember always being the only Jewish kid in the class, and almost yearly being asked to do a little talk on the Jewish holidays & customs. As a kid, I felt at once honored but also a bit burdened by this. Now I am thankful the teachers wanted me to share.

I have always felt more spiritual outside among natural settings and in truth do most of my deep thinking/praying there, but I do think the community of a religion has a purpose and as I'm getting older, I've come to appreciate that a bit more.

One of the things I love about Judaism, at least the way I interact with it, is kind of like what Robyn said - I have to think my own way through the journey. The temple I go to is not affiliated formally, having people from the 'big 3' backgrounds, and a reconstructionist bent.

My dad was Catholic growing up (I mean his childhood, not mine). I think he found more of a home in Judaism though and was/is active in my hometown congregation and I think of him as Jewish in practice if not in name... My husband is Catholic, and from an observant and religious family. They have always been very welcoming and when Christmas falls during Hanukkah, as it often has these last several years, we observe both, even at their home.

Most of my angst about formal religion comes from the ways I see it used to divide and make one group feel superior to others, or worse... I just don't get that and never will. But in the grand scheme of things I still think and hope, that is the exception & not the norm of religious institutions. After all, they too evolve...

[Fredwina]

I love that, and it is so true.
I know it's not like that in other areas, but it, and my always questioning nature, makes it hard for me to have any desire to participate in church activities.

That's one of the reasons I'm Episcopalian. We actually encourage people to think about their faith,(I think 3/4 of out folks started out as something else, myself included) and I like that we have all of God's people, and not just all of god white-middle class people. If you're still religious, but got turned off, find a different tent, so to speak. I think there is a reason for so many different religious expressions.
Bicycle related content : Our Rector points out that I'm the only parishioner who gets covered parking

[mimitabby]

YOU GUYS ARE ALL WONDERFUL!!

I cannot believe this conversation is happening. I was holding my breath on page one. Sheesh. Let it flow.

[slinkedog]

That's one of the reasons I'm Episcopalian. We actually encourage people to think about their faith,(I think 3/4 of out folks started out as something else, myself included) and I like that we have all of God's people, and not just all of god white-middle class people.

As I read these responses, it makes me sad to think that people's freedom of thought has been, or at least it is perceived as so, repressed in the church. I think if you read the words of Jesus, you will find that that's not what he was about.