Hills -- is it true?

[Kano]

Is there really a "technique" for going up hills? Besides any way that gets you there? Tater said her "technique isn't very good" when she wrote about going up hills in another thread, and that made me wonder if there are some nifty tips and tricks I could learn to help?

I was reading, I think it was Velogirl's post about teaching, and how turning is done with hips rather than hands, and I hadn't really noticed that even though I know that I don't turn the front end all that much when I turn the bike, so I paid attention, and played seeing how shifting my body affected my direction today while we were out riding. COOL!

So, what are the tricks I can learn and practice while I'm putting in all that saddle time that will make hill climbing work better?

oops, a girl oughta sign her posts, eh?

Karen in Boise

[Eden]

There are some things you can do to be a better climber

1. Learn to pedal in circles - pull up on the pedals as well as pushing down. This does require either toe clips or clipless pedals obviously. And learn to spin - to get a smooth pedal stroke you pretty much have to be spinning. Practicing on a stationary trainer will help strengthen your leg muscles and make this easier.

2. Learn to climb standing. Now, some people like to climb consistently in the standing position, while others just use it to rest their legs or when extra power is needed. You'll have to figure out which style you prefer. Standing climbing uses more cardio-vascular capacity, seated climbing uses more leg muscle. To climb standing you'll want your hands on the tops of the bars - at least on the hoods (I've heard unless you are Italian and famous pro don't climb in the drops ), stand up on the pedals pulling the bike forward as you stand with your hands and feet- this is to prevent your bike from shooting backwards into anyone who is following you. Gently rock your bike back and forth with your pedal strokes - don't force this - it should be a natural movement rather than a forceful rocking back and forth by using your arms. Standing climbs will be difficult to impossible if your bike is too big for you.

3. Go at your own pace and don't go out too fast on long climbs. You'll burn out fast if you try to follow someone who has a quicker pace than you.

This is pretty basice, but I hope it gives you some ideas.

[kelownagirl]

I liked this article in Bicycling Magazine.

http://www.bicycling.com/article/0,6...1304-1,00.html

How to Conquer Long Climbs

The smarter way to get to the top: seated climbing.
By Alan Coté

Standing up and honking on the pedals can give you a feeling of power and mastery--like you're wrestling the climb down to size with your whole body. But most of the time, it's dumb. The smarter way to get to the top: seated climbing. It burns fewer calories and saves energy for the long haul. When longtime pro and mountain goat Scott Moninger climbs those long, hard hills, he uses five techniques to get to the top stronger and faster. His climbing savvy helped him win the race up Colorado's 14,264-foot-high Mt. Evans three of the last four years and take the top spot in the 2000 Saturn Cycling Classic--which includes more than 14,000 feet of vertical ascent.

"Seated climbing is more efficient over longer climbs," says Moninger. "You use more muscles when you're out of the saddle, which raises your heart rate by 8 percent--and keeping your heart rate lower is important on longer climbs." Standing requires more energy because you work your legs, arms and back, and you use 12% more oxygen and energy.

For Moninger, a long climb is a mile or more, and making the decision to sit or stand depends on the steepness. He'll spend about half the time sitting while climbing the infamous Manayunk Wall's 17% grade in Philadelphia's U.S. Pro Championships. Here are Moninger's five tips for successful climbing:

KEEP YOUR BODY STILL. Don't rock your upper body; it wastes energy. Don't let your shoulders hunch forward; instead, keep them back and down to open your chest for breathing. A quick test to tell if you're hunching forward: If your elbows are sticking out so far you can't lightly brush your knees on the upstroke, you're hunched and robbing yourself of oxygen. To keep your upper body from swaying as you pedal, pull lightly on the bar opposite the leg that's on a downstroke.

2. SCOOT YOUR BUTT BACK. Sliding back on the seat gives you more leverage on the pedals. This position opens the angle between your femurs and upper body, which lets you better use the powerful psoas muscles in the back of your thighs and lower back, especially when you pull up. For more power over shorter rises, slide to the front third of the saddle.
When your weight is more forward, you're using the powerful muscles of your buttocks and lower back. You also won't feel like you're dragging so much weight.

3. RELAX THOSE HANDS. Put your hands on the hoods or the bar top, so you can drop your elbows and relax your upper body. Don't climb in the drops--hunching down pinches off the lower part of the lungs and restricts the diaphragm. To stay relaxed, Moninger climbs with his hands on the brake hoods. If you prefer riding with your hands on the top, rest your thumbs on the top of the bar to avoid squeezing and tensing up. To keep your grip loose, grab the bar with your fingers spread out, then put your weight on the bar and wrap your fingers around loosely.

4. STAY ABOVE 60 RPM. There's lots of talk about ramping up cadence because Lance spins on climbs at about 90-100 rpm. But Moninger rides a constant cadence of about 85-95 rpm when climbing in the saddle. This cadence, which is about 10 rpm higher than that of many other pros, works for him because he's a smaller rider. Bigger, more powerful riders tend to mash bigger gears. A cadence of about 60-70 rpm is as low as you should go in the saddle. Go slower and you lose your fluid pedal stroke, says Moninger.

5. SHIFT EASY THEN HARD. Plan ahead on climbs. Start in easier gears at the bottom and shift into harder gears as you ascend. Then, as the climb gets tougher, you won't be left grasping for easier ones. That's the best way to get over the summit in the saddle, but don't let ego limit your cog choice. Moninger will click into the 27-tooth cog if that's what the course demands. "I needed at least a 27-tooth cog for the San Francisco Gran Prix, especially with Filmore Street's 18-percent grade," he says.


2 TIMES IT'S SMARTER TO STAND
* When you need a break. If you're near your limit, spinning fast and riding in the saddle taxes your heart and lungs. Standing lets you stretch your muscles and open your lungs.

* Near the crest. Spinning in the saddle for the bulk of the climb, then shifting to a bigger gear and standing up to blast over the top is a classic technique for dropping other riders.


HOW TO PEDAL ON SEATED CLIMBS
A smooth seated stroke will allow you to apply more force more evenly and efficiently. Concentrate on pushing each pedal forward, then pulling it back, with these four steps:

1. When your crankarm is at the 11 o'clock position, push it like you're walking down a set of long, shallow steps. Think forward and down.

2. Keep the same amount of pressure until the crankarm reaches the 5 o'clock position.

3. As the pedal passes through the 5 o'clock position, pull back and up on the pedal as if you're scraping mud off the sole of your shoe.

4. Keep pulling up with the same amount of force until you're back to the 11 o'clock position.

[Veronica]

To climb standing you'll want your hands on the tops of the bars - at least on the hoods (I've heard unless you are Italian and famous pro don't climb in the drops ),

I'm not Italian and I'm not a pro... but I do my standing climbs in the drops.

V.

[snapdragen]

I'm not Italian and I'm not a pro... but I do my standing climbs in the drops.

V.

Yabbut you're Princess Zippy the Amazing!

[Eden]

I'm not Italian and I'm not a pro... but I do my standing climbs in the drops.

V.

The comment was accompanied by a photo of Pantani doing exactly that. But seriously, climbing on the tops is recommended because most people find that it expands their chest a bit and makes it easier to breathe and you need as much oxygen as you can get when you are climbing. Then again the best rule is to know when to break the rules and everyone develops their own climbing style. I'm a mostly seated climber myself.

[kelownagirl]

And I like climbing seated (because I'm not strong enough to stand), AND in the drops. Probably sounds dumb but it helps me focus and feel strength in my legs. I hadn't thought about what it might be doing to my breathing. I will try being more upright next time and see if that makes a difference...

barb

[Kano]

Eden -- your third point, stick to your own pace, that's easy: there's just no way to keep up with anyone. I'm doing well to keep up with myself!

No standing on hoods or in drops -- only got "flat" bars, since this is one of those hybrid-y comfort beast bikes. I will play more with standing now and then, which I haven't done much yet. Of course, there's a reason for not standing on this bike: my bike has a suspension fork, and when I do stand, even if I don't think I'm leaning too hard on the bars and trying to keep myself mostly on my pedals, that fork is squishing and flexing, or whatever it is that it's designed to do. It feels like I'm smooshing the front wheel into the ground -- almost like I'm losing forward momentum? Does this description make sense? It's definitely an icky, spongy sensation. Is this another good reason to need that road bike with a "normal" fork that I've been wanting?

If I really want to get good at hill climbing, rather than just barely surviving, gasping my way up the hill, is this bike the wrong tool? I'm about ready to get out the old bike (an old Trek 720), lube up the chain, air up the tires, dust off the cobwebs, and see what happens. It's got a "rigid" frame and I can't help but think it would be a good experiment!

The article -- relaxed hands -- I work hard at that, I think I'm getting pretty good at that part. Open chest -- I wonder -- I can hardly wait to focus on that and make sure I'm doing it! Cadence, I don't know about keeping that high -- what a struggle! Or, maybe I'm doing it just fine, and don't realize it? Butt back -- I've noticed the power that gives me on the flats, I'll have to work on using it on hills too!

Lots of great information -- now I wish I could get out on the road again before Sunday! (meanwhile, I'll eagerly read any other ideas people have to offer!!!!!)

Karen in Boise

[RoadRaven]

Well I have nothing more to add to this thread... so what better reason to say something anyway??


Just endorsing the take it steady, get in a rythym and work your way up... don't get phased by others, don't get phased by your own thoughts.

Know that the hill will end.

To get stronger on hills, it is suggested you stay seated in a gear you can just get on top of.

It toook me a looooooong time to be able to stand for longer than a few seconds... my HR would rocket.

However, as I have got fitter, I can maintain standing for 300-400 metres at times (depending on the grade of course...)

I use standing when I get to the top of the climb so I don't have to drop into a lower gear... a useful strategy when racing, or trying to keep from getting dropped as the rest of the bunch crests a hill and you have dropped off the tail a tad...

keep doing hills - you'll get there

[HipGnosis6]

It's hilly here.... and I often need to distract myself from the rest of the hill. I'll pick a visual target a little ways up hill and tell myself "if I can make it past that telephone pole/intersection/fire plug/art car, I can be proud even if I have to walk the rest of the way up!" and then the very instant I pass it, I pick a new target.

I also like to sing or loudly recite poetry as I climb. Short and repetitive pieces work best for me, so please if you ever ride with me and catch me shouting "C is for cookie, that's good enough for me!" as I straggle up a hill - that's normal, I haven't slipped a cog. Or well.... any more cogs.

My bike doesn't have them, but I hear bar ends are great for climbing for us with the flat bar bikes.

[Grog]

Something I underestimated is shifting skills and momentum. This works for rollers, mostly. I spent a month on Vancouver Island this summer and it was ALL rolling hills, everywhere, and pretty serious hills in many cases. I have improved my shifting a lot, to a point where I can now sometimes pass my Dear Partner - a MUCH stronger cyclist than me, especially on hills - on an uphill with no hopes for him to catch up. I'm pretty sure that fitness is not the factor here, but strategy.

I thought he was just being nice in letting me pass him and not re-passing me immediately! But when he told me he actually couldn't catch up I started observing what I was doing on those specific occasions. I realized that, on the end of a given downhill, I'd shift up (or increase cadence if no bigger gears were available) and take all the speed I could find. Then I would start the climb and as soon as I started feeling resistance I'd shift down pretty quickly, maintaining a very high cadence.

In other words, it means no real resting on the downhill. But a really fun time on the uphill!!!!

In any case, practice is the key. There is no other way to get good on hills. Sometimes slow, sometimes fast, in different gears, trying different tricks, sitting, standing, singing (it helps). Smiling at the hill is also a booster! I think it makes the hill shy away.

[DDH]

Wouldn't it be a perfect world if we could all as beginers have a personal trainer to help us through these difficult things that come up.
I ride a lot of hills, not real steap all the time, but lots of the regardless. I would think that since I have no choice and that is all I have around here, I would get better and that just doesn't seem like the case.
I just keep plugging away though, and hope someday, all of the sudden I will be able to go up a hill at more than 4 mph, and or not have to get off and walk.

[mimitabby]

The comment was accompanied by a photo of Pantani doing exactly that. But seriously, climbing on the tops is recommended because most people find that it expands their chest a bit and makes it easier to breathe and you need as much oxygen as you can get when you are climbing. Then again the best rule is to know when to break the rules and everyone develops their own climbing style. I'm a mostly seated climber myself.

where's the photo you are talking about? I'd like to see someone climbing standing with the hands in the drops!

[li10up]

I realized that, on the end of a given downhill, I'd shift up (or increase cadence if no bigger gears were available) and take all the speed I could find. Then I would start the climb and as soon as I started feeling resistance I'd shift down pretty quickly, maintaining a very high cadence.

This brings up something I've been wondering about. I use the speed from the downhills to help make it up the next rise but then I always get passed by someone about 2/3 of the way to the top. What is the best way to climb...stay in a hard gear as long as possible and then shift or shift sooner? Staying in a hard gear could wear your legs out sooner but down shifting too soon causes you to gain less ground per pedal stroke. So what is the best way?

[Veronica]

where's the photo you are talking about? I'd like to see someone climbing standing with the hands in the drops!

The second photo is by Graham Watson.

V.