Venting - way OT & alittle wordy....

[Tater]

Ahhh... but it is important to teach approriate behavior for various situations. I talk about that a lot with my students. What is appropriate with your friends and at home, is not always right for the classroom.

Asking kids to be polite is not asking them to be minature adults. It's expecting them to be considerate of others. If a child is having such a bad day that they are running and screaming up and down the aisles because they are emotional, maybe they should be home taking a nap. Otherwise it's just bad behavior and bad parenting to not correct the behavior.

We wonder what's happened to our society? We don't teach and require polite behavior, so we don't get it.

Thank you for this, V. Proper behavior for various situations reminds me of my upbringing. If Mom or Dad said no, we couldn't have such and such, we shut up and let the subject drop. No meant no and further whining would not change their minds. We also knew not to haul a$$ down the aisles disturbing other shoppers, how rude. Look out if one of us had a "meltdown" in the store, 'cause Mom would leave the buggie and haul us out of the store.

Sure, kids will be kids, but that doesn't mean they can't be disciplined.

Tater with no tots by choice.

[Veronica]

Not the same. At all.

I think that's what I said. Maybe it wasn't clear enough.

I can definitely tell when my students have had permissive parents who did not take the time to teach them how to polite and considerate of others. The world does not revolve around any of us. It is not really "all about me." It's all about ALL of us learning to get along. A parent who does not take responsibility for teaching that concept to their children, should never have become a parent.

Veronica

[salsabike]

Not having children surely doesn't disqualify anyone from noticing some of what works and what doesn't work with respect to teaching kids how to deal well with the rest of the world. Everyone has access to the knowledge they gained watching their own parents raise them as well as different approaches they see used by friends and relatives. Thought that kind of "you have to be one to qualify" thinking went out with "You can't be a good drug counselor if you weren't a heroin addict first." Guess some people still believe that.

Having been a school psych for a chunk of years, I noticed a long time ago that by far the most disturbed and frightened/frightening kids I meet are not the ones from abusive homes but the ones from homes where the parents have abdicated and left their kids in control.

I don't think most people, childless or not, automatically judge when they see a whining, crying kid in a store (heck, I was one of those "I want that CANDY" kids myself. Come to think of it, sometimes I still am---although quieter). Kids whine, kids cry. The issue for most people, I think, is whether the parents are letting those kids ride roughshod on the people around them. And since we all share the same space, I think everyone has the right to weigh in on that one, and that all that info is genuinely worth considering. I really do.

[SadieKate]

I am now reading Talk to the Hand, The Utter Bloody Rudeness of the World Today, or Six Good Reasons to Stay Home and Bolt the Door by our beloved Queen of Apostrophe, Lynne Truss. She states in her intro:

Once you leave behind such class concerns as how to balance peas on the back of a fork, all the important rules surely boil down to one: remember you are with other people, show some consideration.

I think permissive parents forget this basic rule in an effort to not squash their darlings' potential, forgetting that the rule teaches each of us about "I and Them." The little darlings instead learn that "I rules Them. Yes, I am not a parent myself but I've taken care of neighbors' children who had the rude awakening when under my care. It has been rather funny to get reports from parents about the children behaving themselves when with me.

[mimitabby]

I have a cousin who deeply believed that she should never say no to her kids.
Well, those two girls were absolute monsters until they got to school
and their teachers trained them. The younger one was so bad that they had to take everything out of her room except a mattress because she would throw things to break them when she was mad.

For a while, it was NOT pleasant to be in that house. the sound of my cousin trying to reason
with a screaming kicking 5 year old was more than I could take.

[lph]

I have a cousin who deeply believed that she should never say no to her kids.
Well, those two girls were absolute monsters until they got to school
and their teachers trained them. The younger one was so bad that they had to take everything out of her room except a mattress because she would throw things to break them when she was mad.

For a while, it was NOT pleasant to be in that house. the sound of my cousin trying to reason
with a screaming kicking 5 year old was more than I could take.

Oh yes. My only nephew is the same age as my son, and stayed at home with his mother until school age. Which could have been just fine in the right setting, but they truly believed in treating him like an adult, reasoning with him no matter what, never raising their voices, plus they had hardly any contact with other children. Poor kid turned into Spoilt Devil Child and Lenin rolled into one. When my talkative, ultra-sociable, well-meaning son had to "be nice" to him at a birthday party it was almost more than he could take. And I freely admitted to him after they had left that yes, THAT was a very hard child to get along with, and yes, he behaved very badly.

Devil Child (sorry, the name stuck) has now turned nine, and is gradually entering the world of normal human people.

[DebW]

Possibly, but for most of the population, it takes more effort to *not* breed than *to do so* so maybe it should be a situation like bike commuting, etc... gov't grants for not having children.
6 billion people on earth, people. When do we say 'when'?

I've often thought that miniature stop-cocks in the vas deferens installed before puberty would be a good solution. Gov't license (if they can require a marriage license, why not a breeding license?) to switch them to the "on" positiion, back off after conception, lifetime limit of 2-3. With the current population, the default needs to change.

[lph]

I had two unruly sons. I did not let them run wild in any stores. Okay, we always let them try out all the bikes and stuff at toys R us.I figured that store was fair game!!
but in the grocery store, etc, they were firmly locked to me
at all times. That's also why i stopped at 2 children; I could hold one with each hand.
I did not allow them to harass animals of any kind.
It can be done, raising children to respect others. There's no excuse for the behavior you described. Now sometimes my kids were louder than one might like, and that's where I say kids will be kids.. Sometimes we'd just join them.

They were not allowed to play in the street. and we live on a dead end.

That just made me think about something - having my son has in general raised my tolerance for noise and running around. My son still runs around in the store, but now he's racing to get whatever I've sent him out to get, as fast as he can. He'll still tear down the hill afterwards zigzagging between other people, but that's because in his head he's Superman or somebody right then. I guess I might have found that annoying pre-kid.

So I understand a lot more of kids' basic need to burn off energy, but instead I try to focus on the things that are important to me. Don't WHINE. Ask properly if you want something. Be polite to strangers. Say thank-you. Never harass animals, not even the smallest ones, and don't approach dogs that are tied up. Stay out of the road. Watch out for cyclists
(But by all means, go climb on the neighbours shed if you like as long as I can't see you... )

[lph]

I've often thought that miniature stop-cocks ..

Um, shouldn't that be written the other way around?

[DebW]

Um, shouldn't that be written the other way around?

Oh, didn't realize that word worked both ways... But no, it wouldn't stop the cocks, just the results.

[Python]

OK. Here's my tuppenceworth from the UK.

As a child, I was taught very quickly how to behave, especially in public. Mum (or Dad) would warn me once, warn me a second time to behave and the third time I got a smack (same applied to my brother). Neither of us have ever been in any trouble of any kind. The thing was, we were taught right from wrong, sometimes we got smacked but we had two loving parents who always made time for us, which must have been difficult for them as they had their own shop and worked long hours, also they had me quite late on in life. My brother is six years old than I am.

By saying that, Dad would take us to school in the mornings, pick us up at lunchtime, Mum would be home with lunch waiting for us (my Aunt used to work in the shop too - she and my Uncle sadly weren't blessed with children), then Dad would take us back to school and pick us up when school finished. We were taught to respect other people and their property. Even at school, if we stepped out of line we got our hands belted with a strap called a Tawse. It hurt at the time, but taught us a lesson and there was very little trouble at school.

When my kids came along, I brought them up the same way, to know right from wrong and respect other people and their property. My daughter once played me up in a store really badly, so I spanked her there and then. She never did it again. One time when we were in a restaurant (she was about 6 years old at the time), as we were about to leave, the manageress came over with a bag of sweets for my daughter and complimented us on how well-behaved she was. My daughter was, of course, delighted with the sweets (candies I think you call them). Now she's a Mum herself, she and her husband are bringing my grandson up the same way - to know right from wrong. She's a stay-at-home Mum because she believes that's where Mum's should be especially when the kiddies are little (grandson's 9 months old )

There are too many parents nowadays who really couldn't care less what their kids get up to. We see a lot of that where I live. Three year olds shouting and cursing and use "F" and "C" words and the parents (or parent) just look on and don't pull them up for it, or the parent(s) are so drunk or drugged up, they don't even know what planet they're on, never mind their kids

I don't know what it's like over the pond, but we have an awful lot of schoolgirl pregnancies here. There has been far too much foisted on kids by the media, the liberal elite with their "don't discipline your kids" and the European Human Rights Act which virtually makes hooligans untouchable - and they know it.

Kids do need discipline, but it also needs to be tempered with a lot of love and patience, something that's sadly lacking for many kids nowadays

[mimitabby]

There are too many parents nowadays who really couldn't care less what their kids get up to. We see a lot of that where I live. Three year olds shouting and cursing and use "F" and "C" words and the parents (or parent) just look on and don't pull them up for it, or the parent(s) are so drunk or drugged up, they don't even know what planet they're on, never mind their kids

OR THE PARENTS THINK IT IS CUTE!

[Bruno28]

Why do parents let their kids play/run/ride

Personally, I think they should be nailed to the floor indoors.

No, I don't have kids - but I do have a hammer and nails........have I gone too far????

[snapdragen]

Personally, I think they should be nailed to the floor indoors.

No, I don't have kids - but I do have a hammer and nails........have I gone too far????

**snort**

just a bit.....

[DebW]

Personally, I think they should be nailed to the floor indoors.

No, I don't have kids - but I do have a hammer and nails........have I gone too far????

Reminds me of a joke.

Kid: "Mommy, mommy why do I keep running around in circles?"
Mom: "Shut up or I'll nail your other foot to the floor."

[If that was in poor taste, I'll slink off to the corner and laugh quietly. I do have children, now grown, and I've never used nails on them.]