Here we go again... another scandal on TDF

[Eden]

Quote from another forum;
"Cleared" of anything illegal under Spanish law -- but blood doping
isn't illegal, and in Spain neither is other doping. That just means
they won't face criminal prosecution; they still face sanctions.

My comment was based on this

Joseba Beloki, Isidro Nozal, Sergio Paulinho, Allan Davis and Alberto Contador have all received a written document officially clearing them of any links to the ongoing "Operación Puerto," the Spanish newspaper El Diario Vasco reported Wednesday.

The five riders received a legal document signed by Manuel Sánchez Martín, secretary for the Spanish court heading up the "Operación Puerto" investigation, stating, "there are not any type of charges against them nor have there been adopted any type of legal action against them."

As they were cleared of any links to Puerto I would assume that means there is no evidence that they did blood dope, even if it is not illegal in Spain, therefore no reason to sanction them. It could be a quirk of the translation and the statement certainly did not go into much depth, so it is possible that they are still under suspicion by WADA and the UCI. In any case its still ashame that Vinokurov had to miss the tour as he was never implicated in any wrong doing.

[velogirl]

Landis has not only been fired, but if you read the news today, due to the the past doping situations with Tyler Hamilton and 3 other riders, plus the recent especulations of Botero and another Phonak rider who were in the group of riders frequently visiting the Spaniard doctor, they have decided not to support cycling anymore, it is too embarrasing for them. Manzano the rider who spoke his mind about doping said and Merckz also said it sometime ago, that if you wanted just to finish the Tour you could go with no dope but those wanting to be in the top 15 will only make it with it. We have to let our kids know this, because if they are wanting to go professional some day they have to be aware of the consequences of doping to their health. These guys when they step into their 40's and 50's don't even have a sex life anymore !

Landis has not been fired. It is part of the WADA code of ethics (signed by teams and individual riders) that if a rider is under investigation he doesn't race during the interim and the team will suspend the rider. This isn't being fired.

Phonak had planned to pull out their title sponsorship as early as January (that's when I heard it from Floyd himself at a training camp in CA). iShares will be the new title sponsor of the team and Phonak will be a secondary sponsor.

It's a shame, in a country where we "should" be innocent until proven guilty, that the public and the media condemn (how do you spell that?) a rider before there is sufficient evidence or due process has been served. How can we be so judgemental? Give the guy a chance, will you? Rumors and misinformation do nothing to help the integrity of this sport.

Yes, doping is a problem in pro cycling. And every junior who wants to pursue the sport professionally quickly learns that, especially if they race in Europe. But there are pro racers who race clean and we should hold them up as an example to our aspiring athletes.

[FreshNewbie]

Thank you Velogirl! ... for speaking my mind!!! We didn't see any evidence yet regarding the Test B, but somehow people jump to conclusions right away. I know it's everybody's personal opinion, but maybe if you imagined yourself in his shoes or other riders' shoes then you would too want a benefit of a doubt. We all know that pro cycling is corrupted with doping and other issues but we shouldn't forget that puting everybody under one standard doesn't do any good. To me, until he is proven guilty and emptied his last resorts of innosence proof - he is not guilty!!!

[Denise223]

I'm wondering....Is it possible at all that TEST B could be tampered with??

[velogirl]

I'm wondering....Is it possible at all that TEST B could be tampered with??

Okay, so I've never been drug tested, but I managed a pro team last season in the US. We were lucky enough to win the doping lottery a few times during the season. You see, in the US, not only are the winners tested, but there are a number of random tests as well (ie picking a number out of a hat).

Because most of our racers are new to the pro scene, I accompanied them to the testing trailer. Here's what happens:

You sit outside in the sun in your wet shorts (after just racing in the sun), and the USADA folks give you gatorade until you can finally pee. Sometimes this takes hours. I think it might be faster if they gave you coffee or beer, but apparently that would skew the ph (see below).

Once you're good to go, you go inside the trailer with a USADA rep and the rep. explains the procedure to you. The rep. gives you some literature about USADA and you sign an acknowledgement. You pick a box from a handful of identical boxes sitting on the table. You then open the box yourself and inside are two glass cups (sealed) and a test strip. The rep. never touches the box or the cups or the test strip.

Then, you and the rep. go into the bathroom and she watches you pee into both cups. Imagine if you get a bit of performance anxiety -- this can be a long process. After you pee in the cups, you seal them again and the rep. gives you a label to put on them (with information about you, the race, the date, etc).

Then, you go sit at the table again and the rep. asks you to open the cups and administer the test strip to see if the samples will be valid (has to do with the ph level or something). Anyways, you seal the cups (sample A and sample B), put them back in the box, the box gets sealed and then you finally get to go home.

So, it would appear, on the surface, that there's very little margin for error in this process, at least from a collection pov. However, I have no idea what happens during the testing/analysis phase.

And, the crazy thing about the T/E test that was in question for Floyd is that there apparently are HUGE concerns about whether or not this test is even valid.

BTW, I'm sure there's lots of info on the WADA and USADA websites where you can learn more.

[Bron]

You sit outside in the sun in your wet shorts (after just racing in the sun), and the USADA folks give you gatorade until you can finally pee. Sometimes this takes hours. I think it might be faster if they gave you coffee or beer, but apparently that would skew the ph (see below).

In lots of sports alcohol is a banned substance so drinking beer would not be such a great plan. Steve Redgrave (Olympic rower) describes being given beer to drink during a dope test in his biography. By the time he actually needed to pee he was so drunk that he was falling all over the place and had to be sent to bed!

Bron

[Kalidurga]

Apparently Floyd did a press conference this afternoon on the issue.

He's also going to talk about it on Larry King tonight at 9 pm ET: CNN: Larry King Live

[mimitabby]

I'll say one thing about him, he's not hiding or holding back.!!

[velogirl]

Oh, and I forgot. You also have to fill out a butt-load of paperwork about your health and meds. I always had my racers bring a specific list of all their meds (including vitamins and herbals) along with doses and when they took them and I kept a copy as well. Post-race, when you're fatigued and can't think straight, it's hard to remember all this information on the top of your head. If you use a banned substance you can get a therapeutic exemption. However, you need to know what you're putting in your body. It's too late, after the results come back, to say "oh yeah, I was using a steroid inhaler."

[spokewench]

Greg Lemond is way too fast to accuse others of doping. Don't forget there has been doping in pro cycling for many years even when Lemond was racing. Also, remember that he probably shouldn't have been able to win the tour since his body is full of shotgun pellets due to being shot I think it was maybe a year or two before he won the Tour!

I don't condone doping but the tour has gotten so competitive, no one who is not doping can have a chance in heck to win! Back in the day, they used to have what you would call a rest day where they would go slower and take it easy - these days, the tours are always "the fastest ever" etc. Something has to give and it is the rider's bodies if they don't dope!

[chickwhorips]

if floyd was tested at other parts of the stage while in yellow, and didn't test positive, why did this one pop positive? were the other tests they were doing trying to test for something else or the same thing?

[Denise223]

Velogirl:

Thanks for all of the information!

Originally posted by velogirlAnd, the crazy thing about the T/E test that was in question for Floyd is that there apparently are HUGE concerns about whether or not this test is even valid.

I know, that's what I can't understand !

I am looking forward to seeing Floyd on Jay Leno tonight -- he was scheduled to appear as of this past Tuesday.

Have a great day!

Denise

[maillotpois]

This is a good report:

http://www.pezcyclingnews.com/?pg=fullstory&id=4223

[Flatlander]

Is anyone besides me bothered by the argument that "they all do it, so he's guilty"...?

It seems to me that besides a presumption of guilt before all the evidence is in, it is impossible to mount a defense against a blanket, sweeping statement like this. If you believe this, then no amount of "proving a negative" will change your mind. Seems a little unfair to me...

Where, exactly, is the *proof* that they all do it? I think it is one thing to suspect that there is a lot of doping in cycling--some has even been demonstrated. However, I could just as easily say that all Texans are arrogant (I'm a Texan, so that's why I'm using this example )...Just saying it isn't actual "proof" of anything except someone's opinion and suspicions--no amount of evidence to the contrary would change that person's mind...

IMHO.

[snapdragen]

I don't think I'd wait for the b sample test - I'd have the IRNS test done immediately.

I believe in Floyd. Until he says "Yes, I knowingly took a banned substance" I will continue to believe in him.