Here we go again... another scandal on TDF

[SouthernBelle]

I know he was given permission to have a cortisone shot in his hip prior to the tour. I don't know if that effects the results on those tests.

2nd. That shouldn't have been the only day he was tested. He had held the mellow johnny before, so shouldn't the prior tests have been steroid positive? I can't believe he would have taken steroids just for 17.

[Eden]

2nd. That shouldn't have been the only day he was tested. He had held the mellow johnny before, so shouldn't the prior tests have been steroid positive? I can't believe he would have taken steroids just for 17.

I'm afraid even if this is the only day of the tour that is positive the results will still stand, if the B sample is positive as well, until and unless he sucessfully fights it. Roberto Heras lost his Veulta title last year for one positive EPO test from a sample taken on a day when he already had the race won - so logic would say why dope when the race is essentially over.

The riders do and should fight some of this testing. Its not like a pregnancy test - either you are are you aren't (even pregnancy tests aren't 100%). Many of them are quite subjective, requiring being "read" by a technician and are also subject to natural fluctuations in the persons own body chemistry. While I don't know much about how they test for testosterone, the EPO test has proven to be far from reliable and there are several atheletes who have fought and cleared themselves from false positives.

[mimitabby]

oh, the pain of it! Today I attended a bike safety class that the Cascade bike club teaches (they brought it to our company) and the first thing the guy says is;
"well, I guess Floyd's out"


seems to me, a guy who can ride like that ought to have inordinate amounts of testosterone in the first place!

[Triskeliongirl]

My understanding is the problem is not that his levels of testosterone were too high, but that the RATIO of testosterone to its precurser epitestosterone was too high in the tested sample. While its true that if one were taking testesterone, one would expect this ratio to be elevated, one would also expect the TOTAL amount of testosterone to be high yet his was in the LOW normal range, so this seems like an unfair test if the results do not consider the TOTAL amount of testosterone. I also read that he takes presicrition thyroid hormone for hypothyrodism, so who knows what the effects of cortisone, thryoid hornome, ethanol and physical stress all have on levels of epitestosterone. While I support drug testing this has turned into a wtichhunt. The 5 astana-wurth riders that knocked Vino's team out of the tour have now all been cleared. I really think the sport needs to develop more fair testing criteria, and more fair treatment of riders that are under 'suspician.' Its getting to the point where anyone can accuse any rider of doping and get the excluded from a competition. I don't think Floyd did it.

[tomgrrrl]

well said.....the testing is too complicated, in this case, to judge him this early....many factors could be involved in terms of how his body reacts to stress, the cortisone shots, etc....the sport does need to gets its act together and, maybe move the drug lab to a neutral country like Sweden ....

[mimitabby]

he's already been declared guilty and hanged by this guy:


http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercu...s/15137860.htm

ugh. don't read this article if you don't want to get more depressed.

[spokewench]

Love your RB-1 - I've got one collecting dust just like it in my basement. I'm having a hard time parting with it since it is such a GREAT BIKE!

[velogirl]

he's already been declared guilty and hanged by this guy:


http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercu...s/15137860.htm

ugh. don't read this article if you don't want to get more depressed.

Well that explains it! It must've been the sheep testicles he had for dinner with that one beer. Mark Purdy (the author) sure seems to have some pent-up anger in his blood. Maybe he's had one too many sheep testicles too? Or he's just a frustrated wanna-be cyclist?

[chickwhorips]

he's already been declared guilty and hanged by this guy:


http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercu...s/15137860.htm

ugh. don't read this article if you don't want to get more depressed.

its more upsetting then depressing. don't think i've ever read an article like that one.

[snapdragen]

he's already been declared guilty and hanged by this guy:


http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercu...s/15137860.htm

ugh. don't read this article if you don't want to get more depressed.

I just emailed that loser. Talk about guilty until proven innocent, I'm embarrased by my hometown newspaper.

[Kalidurga]

While I support drug testing this has turned into a witchhunt. The 5 astana-wurth riders that knocked Vino's team out of the tour have now all been cleared. I really think the sport needs to develop more fair testing criteria, and more fair treatment of riders that are under 'suspician.' Its getting to the point where anyone can accuse any rider of doping and get the excluded from a competition.

I agree with Triskeliongirl. At this point, it's a toss-up who's less trustworthy: the riders, or the organizations testing them. In this velonews.com article, the president of the UCI even says "... we know that the French laboratory [where the testing was done] has a close connection with [French sports daily] L'Équipe, and we did not want this news to come through the press, because we are sure they would have leaked it." That, to me, puts the integrity of the lab into serious question. Why on earth would WADA and the UCI continue to use this lab? Reading some of the many articles about Lance's issues over doping and Operation Puerto, it's crossed my mind more than once to wonder if someone out there is planting or somehow fabricating evidence of doping against riders. The magnitude of it and how it's all presented is getting to be borderline preposterous.

I'm still not sure I believe there was any wrongdoing by Ulrich, Basso or any of the other riders involved in Operation Puerto. First, during the second week of the Tour, Ulrich's lawyers still had not been given any documentation of what had been discovered, yet these "discoveries" were all over the news. Second, we now find out that the five riders from Astana-Wurth have been cleared. While I agree that any rider under suspicion should have been excluded from the Tour, I do not believe they should be considered cheaters and dopers until they have been proved such.

In Floyd's case, I'm of two minds. My more emotional side is in total denial. My rational side, though, says to just wait and see. I truly hope that the powers-that-be at Phonak are listening to their rational sides.

[mimitabby]

well they took down the floydlandis.com website!!! Talk about supporting your own! That's terrible.

[Kalidurga]

Actually, it looks like it crashed. When I tried to get to it earlier this morning and got a time out, I assumed that tons of people were probably trying to get there and post comments. The message that comes up now when you go to the site seems to verify that.

[Eden]

At this point, it's a toss-up who's less trustworthy: the riders, or the organizations testing them. .... Reading some of the many articles about Lance's issues over doping and Operation Puerto, it's crossed my mind more than once to wonder if someone out there is planting or somehow fabricating evidence of doping against riders. The magnitude of it and how it's all presented is getting to be borderline preposterous.

I agree to a point here - though I don't think that its a thought out conspiracy. Unfortunately some of the techinicians who do the testing seem to be of the mind that all athletes cheat. One rider mentioned that during one of the times they had to contribute a sample the technican remarked something like "we'll get you all in the end". Some of the testing methods that are used (the ones used for EPO and blood transfusions come to mind) have some subjective componants to them. When you combine a person who is looking for a positive with a test that requires some discrimination on the part of the techinician I think that you definitely get a higher possibility of a result that is unclear being read as positive. People will see what they want to see. I don't know if this has any bearing on Floyd's case, though it does seem that there may be many explanations that do not point to willful taking of steriods on his part. Let's just hope that all avenues are explored before he is condemned.

It seems like if WADA and the UCI are going to come down so hard on riders they really ought to have reliable proof of wrongdoing *before* they sanction anyone. Its a real shame that Vinokurov did not get to ride in the TDF, and it will be even more of a shame if Basso and Ullrich are ultimately cleared too. The evidence that has been presented to the public is thin at best and they are so bad at keeping other things quiet that it seems implausible that if they had hard proof - say a bag of Ullrichs blood or something - they would be able to keep it out of the press. Look at how they handle test results. They cannnot even keep A test results quiet. Even if nothing comes of the B test for Floyd his reputation has take a hit and its unfair.

I can understand the sports orgainization wanting to keep riders safe by banning substances that can endanger their health. As far as the argument that keeping sports drug free levels the playing field I don't buy it. The playing field is never level - some people just have more natural gifts than others, and there are plenty of legal ways of enhancing ones performance through training and equipment and things like wind tunnel testing that everyone may not be able to afford.

I guess in the end I'm not sure exactly what should be done - cycling takes a big hit because they pay attention to cheats and test more than any other sport. I'm sure that other sports have just as big, if not a bigger incidence of players taking performance enhancers, but they pretty much turn a blind eye to it. (Operation Puerto turned up lots of other people from other sports too, but we aren't hearing anything about a bunch of soccer players being dismissed are we)

[SalsaMTB]

This morning I was watching TV with my breakfast. The show I was watching, I think The Today Show, had an interview with Greg LeMond. I must say, it was really depressing. He was not optimistic at all. He basically said the likelyhood of a false positive is extremely rare and it doesn't look good. He said he wished him the best, but he didn't think the next test would come back clean. He also said he hoped Landis would just come clean when it came back positive and admit to the doping instead of still claiming he didn't use. It was sad. I definitely expected him to be much more optimistic. If the only thing I heard was his interview, I would basically think there is no chance that Landis wasn't doping.

It was sad. He said he knew the family, knew landis and thought he was a great guy, but he was not positive at all about the situation.