Unfairly target

[Tuckervill]

Yep, I'm with Lisa. It's a bit of poison in an otherwise tranquil lake.

Karen

[snapdragen]

I agree.
I think this whole thread should be deleted. It's really a matter between the forum owners and the OP and doesn't need to be endlessly dissected and debated by the rest of us.

Yep, I'm with Lisa. It's a bit of poison in an otherwise tranquil lake.

Karen

Put it on ignore, hopefully it will die a quick death and not get resurrected.

[Pedal Wench]

It's Susan and Jeff's sandbox - we just get to play in it.

[fidlfreek]

Wow. I love getting to know people over the course of such an elaborate discussion!! Yet another reason I love TE!!!

One point: whether or not it was commercial, whether or not it was OK or not, etc etc etc. At the heart of the matter if I am seriously shopping for a bike I am going to be all over roadbikereview, ebay, craigslist, etc. Its just overkill to list two places at once. Really.

[Cataboo]

Not that I really feel that I should extend this discussion (but yet I can't resist this train wreck). I think to some extent Bike4ever bringing this up publicly is valid since her messages are being flagged, which is what's alerting the mods to them to delete them. It's not like she can explain what she's selling and why to the people that are flagging her posts, any other way than to start a thread on it. So now the people who are flagging her, know her side of the story. We didn't really need to know the details of her interactions with the forum moderators or owners though.

And since as far as I can tell, even though I haven't been around here very long... Bike4ever's really helpful & knowledgable with her suggestions, I think we should all give her the benefit of the doubt and not instantly suspect her of nefarious commercial selling or attack her or anyone else over this. I'm sure that the bike shop she works for has way more than the 8 or 9 bikes she's listed on here for sale.

[pinkbikes]

Not that I really feel that I should extend this discussion (but yet I can't resist this train wreck). I think to some extent Bike4ever bringing this up publicly is valid since her messages are being flagged, which is what's alerting the mods to them to delete them. It's not like she can explain what she's selling and why to the people that are flagging her posts, any other way than to start a thread on it. So now the people who are flagging her, know her side of the story. We didn't really need to know the details of her interactions with the forum moderators or owners though.

And since as far as I can tell, even though I haven't been around here very long... Bike4ever's really helpful & knowledgable with her suggestions, I think we should all give her the benefit of the doubt and not instantly suspect her of nefarious commercial selling or attack her or anyone else over this. I'm sure that the bike shop she works for has way more than the 8 or 9 bikes she's listed on here for sale.

+1 Couldn't have said it better myself!

[Veronica]

So rules only apply to people who are new to the forum and only to people who ask for advice, not to those who give it? What if they give bad advice, does that count?

Veronica

[Cataboo]

So rules only apply to people who are new to the forum and only to people who ask for advice, not to those who give it? What if they give bad advice, does that count?

Veronica

Nope, I said to give her the benefit of a doubt, not to let her run rampant all over the forums doing whatever she wants. Assume honesty and not guilt.

It's part of being civil about a dispute.

If a newly created account posts 8 bikes to sell, then go ahead and assume the worst about their motivations.

And if a newly created account posts 8 bikes to sell and hates on steel, mixtes, ti bikes, and wool, then we should just go ahead and stone them.

[Running Mommy]

not that I should be adding to this.. but I just can't help myself.
Seems someone got her hand caught in the cookie jar, and now is upset about the "punishment".
I remember last fall, nov/ december maybe there were ad's for some small womens bikes- I want to say trek wsd models, but my memory is fuzzy. I remember that the seller had multiple units of the same bike for sale.That seemed VERY commercial to me. I remember thinking that I didn't feel it was appropriate to use the forum in that way.
I can't remember if that seller was the OP, but I think it was???
I put my old used road bike up once, but it's a 5 yr old specialized so hardly a commercial post.
Heck I have a few 08 models I'd love to get rid of, and a boatload of sugoi clothing taking up space on my racks. But I would NEVER think of posting that stuff here. It just wouldn't be right.
I'm sure that the OP is a great person, and she has offered me advice in the past. But there are rules people. Rules... And when it's known that you work in a shop your FS items are going to be scrutinized a bit more than others. Esp. if you post FS items often. I would think anyway??
Cheers to all.

Oh- and I have spoken with Susan on the phone in the past about some charity items. She is my role model! A very warm caring person, and a savvy businesswoman too!

[SadieKate]

Oh gawd, I thought this was dead.

Not that I really feel that I should extend this discussion (but yet I can't resist this train wreck). I think to some extent Bike4ever bringing this up publicly is valid since her messages are being flagged, which is what's alerting the mods to them to delete them. .

Before she has a private discussion with Susan? Color me astonished.

. . . .

And since as far as I can tell, even though I haven't been around here very long... Bike4ever's really helpful & knowledgable with her suggestions, I think we should all give her the benefit of the doubt and not instantly suspect her of nefarious commercial selling or attack her or anyone else over this. . . . .

I'm sure she's been helpful, but that doesn't excuse the public attack on her host.

Susan is probably one of the most approachable people/business owners I've ever spoken to. I can't imagine any reason anyone needs to publicly state a beef about her decisions and her forum before talking to her.

Mods, can we kill the thread?

I don't think I'll ever understand this new way of thinking that the anonymity of the internet gives one permission to disobey common rules of courtesy.

[Susan Otcenas]

Mods, can we kill the thread?

As much as I might like to see the thread die, closing the thread would regrettably play into the hands of members who feel like we (admins) are squashing an open discussion of policies.

So, no matter what I do, I'd make someone unhappy or mad or sad or threaten to leave. None of which I'd like to see happen.

I'd very much like to thank everyone for their frankness. And for the most part, the discussion has stayed quite civil, which again, I thank you for. Over the years, one of things I've been most impressed about is how civil these forums are, so unlike so many other forums on the internet. I'd like to think it's because we've found so much more to celebrate as a community, rather than finding discord in our differences.

As someone pointed out in an earlier post, the thread seems to have split somewhat into 2 parts. 1) a discussion of the OP selling potentially commercial items on the forums, which is not a permitted practice, and 2) a discussion of how policies are developed and reviewed on the forums.

In regards to point one - as I've stated, our policy is to not permit commercial posts. Period. We happily and freely provide a For Sale/Wanted section on the forums for the buying/selling/trading of used personal items. We have no intent to charge for that service. I'm delighted to hear that so many people have had successful transactions finding a new home for someone else's unwanted items. Unfortunately for the OP, she has, over many months, listed items that were "new", "test-ridden", "professionally boxed", etc., sometimes in multiple units. Because of the overwhelmingly commercial appearance of these posts, those postings were moderated. The OP was not asked to leave the forums. As many have noted, her advice and input over her time in the forums have been very valuable to many in the forum community, and we are delighted to have her be a part of it. What's important for everyone to understand is that we would have moderated the offending For Sale posts, REGARDLESS of her tenure here on the forums.

As to point two (discussion of how policies are developed and reviewed on the forums), I'm very torn about what to do about this. The democratic thing for me to do would be to create a subforum where these types of discussions could take place. I'm *somewhat* open to that idea. My reservation about it, if I may be so frank, is that the reality is that administering these forums is not my full-time job. I have a business to run, a task that requires all of my concentration in the current economic climate. I don't think that any of the forum's current rules are onerous, and having the rules in place has so far allowed these forums to run pretty much autonomously for quite a few years. So, again speaking frankly, I feel like I would be creating a solution (a subforum) in search of a problem that isn't that much of a problem.

It's Monday, I have a boatload of paperwork on my desk, so I'm off to get some work done.

I hope everyone has a wonderful day, complete with sunshine and tailwinds.

Susan