blatant sexism

[applegum]

I need a place to rant.

I am so tired of the obvious and completely inappropriate sexism I get at work. Generally if someone works in a bike shop, they probably know a bit about bikes, and odds are they ride or they wouldn't have been hired. I get asked EVERY DAY multiple times whether or not I ride a bike, either mid-conversation after we have already established my cycling knowledge, or as verification before a guy is willing to ask me a question about a product. I might be able to understand this as it's a corporate store, but I've asked the guys who work at the shop (most of whom have worked there for about two years) whether they get asked whether they ride. If they ever have, it's only been once or twice over their entire career. One guy said he'd just say no and walk away if someone ever asked him that, which is when I started asking around.

A customer asked me two days ago whether I worked at the store. We were both standing next to the components cases that are locked up on the wall. I had a set of keys and a shop apron on and was putting away stock. Ignoring the keys, I just said "yeah, you can tell by the apron" and asked if he needed help with something. He said, and I quote, "I thought maybe you were gonna cook me somethin.'" I laughed it off and gave him a long lecture on the intricacies of upgrading a vintage road bike. God. I am the only person in the shop who can explain in detail how to cold set and upgrade a vintage bike so it's compatible with new components. I have a bike tattooed on the back of my neck. What more do these people want?

OK, that's all I had to say. It's been a long summer and it's my last week of work, and I needed to get that off my chest so I don't accidentally rip a customer's head off this close to being free.

Anyone else have any horror stories?

[salsabike]

WOW. I don't have a similar story, but if you can get the "cook me something" guy's head, I will personally volunteer to stuff and mount it on a little---presumably a TINY little---plaque.

Yeesh. I am sorry that stuff happens.

[teigyr]

I wonder if it was a very poor joke? Or attempt at one? Sometimes when people are uncomfortable (or they put their foot in their mouth), they compensate in strange ways.

I had a situation the other night that I thought was wonderful. We had a LOT of equipment to load and a short time span to do it in. I was provided five females to load 6300 lbs worth of heavy boxes and bags and I had doubts about the whole thing. (Bad me, I know.) I had even vented to a co-worker a bit thinking that we were ill-prepared to do the job that we had to do.

When the equipment manager (and equipment) arrived, the manager looked at the crew and said "no offense but this stuff is heavy. Don't you have any males to load it?" I apologized and said this is what we had and we would make the most of it.

This group of women loaded the plane in as quick as I've ever seen it done. The equipment is bulky (along with being heavy) and is difficult to fit in the space provided. The equipment manager was astounded. I was laughing.

I told them after the fact that we had doubts. The lead ramp person said she gets that a lot and that it's mostly women out on the ramp. They were all smiling (the equipment manager gave them shirts he was so impressed) and said they had "girl power".

I guess everyone can be prone to stereotyping. I didn't think they could do it but I am SO glad they surprised me. I am also glad they were tolerant with our doubts and I think a lot of lessons were learned.

[DDH]

I'm sorry you have to deal with ignorant people. I know it's awful for people to be this way, and sometimes they are quite annoying, but really for the most part, I think people don't mean to offend.
We live in a world where it is not politically correct to assume anything and it seems like no matter what is said, someone is going to be offended.

Unfortunately for the most part,, it's still a man's world and when we work in an area that is predominately men, then people are going to be surprised or make unwanted assumptions or remarks.

I always try to ignore the remarks, and consider the source.

[Zen]

I always try to ignore the remarks, and consider the source.

If you do nothing, you get nothing.
If it should ever happen again, just say "Do you mind if I ask you a question?"

"If you saw a male wearing this apron would you say the same thing?"

You may not be cooking anything but you might be providing food for thought.

[teigyr]

If you do nothing, you get nothing.

You're absolutely right. I should know better and I have put people into roles (both male and female) at times. It's unfortunate but people DO have preconceived notions. I think some subtle education will help offset that, or at the very least it'll make the person think twice before they do it again.

[shootingstar]

Zen had a good suggested response.

Well applegum, I'm glad though you earned your keep at LBS. Which one was it in T.O.? It must have been tiring to hear some of the crap.

When I started with my firm (2 yrs. ago) where I am now, my boss and other male managers, often referred to women, as the "girls". ..which irritated the heck of me. Other organizations where I worked with many men, most men no longer used the term in the workplace. Not that I said anything. But after awhile, they no longer use that term on me. I made sure I didn't refer to women as "girls" in my conversation at work. This latter is most emphasized since most women in my workplace still use "girls".

I am not sure why the term was dropped when these same guys now communicate with me. It is possibly just the way I am. ...which direct, open and business-like, almost too serious at times. For the guys, I just deal with them at face value and not with an underlying assumption that they are out to disrespect me. I guess like to chat up abit, joke but get on with biz stuff...my boss realized this early and adjusted fast. (By the way, he wasn't the person who originally hired me. I reported to him later...)

There was a woman who has since left the organization who was (rightfully in some cases) indignant for be treated in a sexist way by male coworkers. But part of her problem was that she felt she deserved more authority, yet she was doing alot of things that undermined her accountability to her job responsibilities..ie. gossiping alot about employees, taking too long lunch breaks, wearing ipod headphones for hrs. for a service-oriented role that didn't make her customer-friendly, etc.

Applegum, there's some improvement in some workplace areas, in others is just the same thing in a new disguise. I've learned to not take things too personally at work if there is expressed sexism..or racism even. Better just to focus on doing a job well and adopt a good learning style for anything an organization offers. And eventually leave an organization with lessons learned, as you will be.

There is a long journey ahead..and things both great and not-so-great to discover. May we just become more clever and strong..

[Becky]

I hear your frustration. I get this a lot too, at both jobs no less. But that, to a degree, is life in a male-dominated field. A silent dirty look from a confident woman tends to shut down a lot of it. My experience has been that very little of it is intended to be harrassing, it's mostly 13 year old brains in 40 year old bodies, and therefore doesn't get dignified with a reaction.

As for the shop scenario, my answer to "Do you ride?" is usually, "Of course!!" I get "what kind of bike do you have?" a lot too, almost as if they expect me to have a Huffy or such. "Which one?" is the standard answer and leaves the customer sputtering usually. (Hey, there's 3 of them- it's a legit clarifier )

I've had customers hit on me more times than I can count, tell me that I had a nice smile/face/legs/etc. I had a guy question my sexual orientation once. DH was working that day as well, and was not amused! If I'm in the shop, they'll ask to speak to a mechanic, and then sputter when I say, "yeah, that's me." (I'm technically sales, but can wrench well enough to get the basics done and certainly tell you what part you need. I leave the heavy duty stuff to our head wrench who's been doing this 20 years and is the nicest guy.) I could go on and on....

I don't know if this helps any, but know that you're not alone in this. Hang in there!

[lph]

Well - just to play devil's advocate - I have countless times gone into a bike shop and had to wade past teenage dudes who don't understand what I'm asking, to get to a knowledgeable mechanic. Not to say your shop is like that, but not all bike shops have equally good staff. Being a woman myself I'd NEVER ask a woman "do you ride?" (how rude!) but I do admit to trying to size up the person I'm talking to so that I know if I'm getting advice based on experience or just the standard spiel they read off the brochure.

I like the idea of practicing some snappy remarks. Or how about a t-shirt saying: YES I WORK HERE and I know what I'm doing



edit:

"Do you ride?" "No, I'm just here to look pretty" "No, I'm the bosses girlfriend" "No, but I sure look cute in bike shorts" "Do I ride what?" "Yes. Why do you ask?" ... ran out of ideas

[RoadRaven]

As someone who tries to enlighten adult students about gender "issues" and invisible sexism that continues in our societies, I empathise and sympathise.

May I also use your story in class, AppleGum?

lph... I don't think your playing the devils advocate, per se... cause looking for a knowledgable bike mechanic doesn't have to involve stupid questions. But you do have a good point. If my partner goes into a bike shop where he knows no-one, he chooses who he wants to talk to based on their body. He is a top road cyclist in NZ in his age group, and people who ride at that level (either male, or the equilvalent female level) have a certain look... their faces tell their weight, their leg muscles tell their cycling discipline... and their muscles and weight tell their level of ability and dedication.

He would never dream of asking if someone rides a bike, but he has asked what type of bike they ride/have ridden.

BTW, lph - luuurve the comebacks. Wish I wasn't so tired so I could add to them!

[applegum]

If you do nothing, you get nothing.
If it should ever happen again, just say "Do you mind if I ask you a question?"

"If you saw a male wearing this apron would you say the same thing?"

You may not be cooking anything but you might be providing food for thought.

Yeah, that's exactly what I was planning on doing, since I'll probably get asked again if I ride tomorrow. Hopefully no one will say anything pertaining to me cooking anything again. Mostly I've avoided saying anything like this so far because a lot of people would get defensive if I asked, and I really didn't want to upset customers. It'd look bad for my managers and I really like all three of them. But I'm leaving in a week and have honestly stopped caring!

Zen had a good suggested response.

Well applegum, I'm glad though you earned your keep at LBS. Which one was it in T.O.? It must have been tiring to hear some of the crap.

It's actually in Richmond, VA. Hopefully it won't happen once I get back to school since I might be working as a mechanic at a school co-op.

May I also use your story in class, AppleGum?

Feel free! Most people underestimate the amount of sexism still out there in the world, thinking we've fixed it all! Totally untrue, unfortunately, although we have come a long way. But it'll be hard to get over the last few hurdles if everyone refuses to acknowledge them.

Thanks for the support everyone! I know that 99% of the people who do stuff like this don't mean to offend, but after four months of it (how do you all take it after so many years?!) on a consistent basis without saying anything I just needed to get it all out before I went off on someone.

[tulip]

Hi Applegum, I think I know where you work (no names please), and no disrespect to the place, but they do get alot of people who have NO CLUE about bikes. If people are clueless, they tend to get nervous and stupid(er). Glad it's your last week.

Where's the coop of which you speak--Richmond ReCycles? I have yet to stop in there, but I crane my neck whenever I'm going down Cary Street.

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

[QUOTE=Zen;351925

"If you saw a male wearing this apron would you say the same thing?"[/QUOTE]

In all fairness, if I had been in the same situation and the guy employee was wearing an apron that reminded me of a kitchen worker or BBQ outfit, I might have said the same joke about cooking something too. It would have been based on the apron, not on his gender. Now, if you had not been wearing an apron at all- then that would have been bad!

And Yes, I have run into LBS employees (both male and female) who know very little about bikes- they are just there to help with inventory or fill in or something. I hate describing my bike situation and my question to someone only to find out they know way less than me about it. I sometimes ask first if they know about bike stuff.

But in general, yes there is too much assumption that men know more than women about bikes.

[DebW]

I can tell you that the sexism against female bike mechanics is much less now than in 1973. Though I'm also comparing my 17 year old self with my 52 year old self and age may make a difference in people's perceptions. In 1973, almost every day (or several times a day) I'd have someone ask "Can I talk to a mechanic?" when they heard my voice over the phone. I'd usually just ask what they needed and answer their questions. But sometimes I'd get so sick of the question and having to explain myself all the time that I'd hand the phone to a guy. I think I've gotten that question once in the past 2 months that I've been a professional mechanic again.

I don't wear an apron in the shop. But the manager and one of the male employees do. No one has ever asked them about cooking. We're a small shop, and all employees are mechanics who wait on customers when necessary. I have been asked if I ride a couple of time by customers, because I appear pretty clueless about the things we sell. I am pretty clueless because I've only worked there 2 months and spend my time repairing bikes, not testing out every helmet, pump, and pair of socks we sell. I just have to tell them that I'm a mechanic and refer their questions on bikes and accessories to someone else.

[applegum]

Hi Applegum, I think I know where you work (no names please), and no disrespect to the place, but they do get alot of people who have NO CLUE about bikes. If people are clueless, they tend to get nervous and stupid(er). Glad it's your last week.

Where's the coop of which you speak--Richmond ReCycles? I have yet to stop in there, but I crane my neck whenever I'm going down Cary Street.

Yeah, it's the shop you think it is. Which is why I haven't gotten upset with anyone who's asked that yet. Then again, Richmond shops in general are in poor shape right now and ours is actually known for being the best for advice and not hiring jerks in the area. We get a lot of people in mentioning the horrible service at a few of the LBS's actually.

I'd love to work at Richmond Recycles, but I'm moving back to Toronto finally. Hopefully I'll be working at the Bikechain, which is run by UofT students and faculty.