Venting - way OT & alittle wordy....

[CyclChyk]

Similar to
Kid: Mommy, Mommy, Why's daddy running so fast?"
Mom: "Shut up and hand me a few more rounds; the clip's empty."

...Definately belongs in the "Good Wife's Guide" humor thread, though...

Now THATS what I'm talking about!!!!

[Tiffanie]

Thank you, Karen

www.stophitting.com
Unconditional Parenting: Moving from Rewards and Punishment to Love and Reason
http://www.naturalchild.org/

I don't believe in coddling, spoiling, back-talk, disrespect, running in the aisles, riding on the wrong side of the bike lane, or lack of discipline. I also don't believe adults always have it all together and I believe that children are one of the last classes of people that it's okay to disrespect, discriminate against and despise. I also do not believe in spanking/smacking/hitting/beating/corporal punishment.

My oldest child is 24, my youngest 12. Between the two, I evolved from a traditional, mainstream, spanking parent, to a non-spanking, child respecting, autonomy-granting one. The results have been the same--happy, healthy, responsible adults or near adults, with one glaring exception. My youngest son can never look back at his life and say I broke his trust by hitting him, and my oldest son can. That is something I will always regret.

My views now are very non-mainstream, and I have a rebuttal to almost every post in this thread, many of those rebuttals were developed and clarified through internet boards such as this one and reading up on the subject over the last 11 years. Since I've already BTDT, I won't debate them again. But I hope the links will help someone else see their children in a different way.

Karen

[Pascale]

I don't glare at parents when a child is being bratty and unruly in a grocery (or other) store - usually the look on their face tells me they are at their wits end and their child isn't listening and they really DO just want to get out in one piece.

I give the child a stare that would chill steam. On many MANY occasions, the child, who might be used to manipulating a parent, won't try the same to a strange adult. I've had lots of them cut the crap IMMEDIATELY. Yeah, they're probably scared. Or at least surprised.

When the child stops screaming (or whatever he/she was doing) I then smile. Doubtful they are traumatized for life.

[Tuckervill]

Tuckervill, Brandy, just wanted to let you know I did go to the website Tucker posted. I read it, and like I said in my previous post, everyone is entitled to their opinion. I just don't happen to agree.

But of course.

I do bear in mind that there are many people who read and don't post. Maybe one or two of them would appreciate an alternative point of view. We don't have to incinerate the board over it.

Karen

[DDH]

Tuckervill, I agree whole heartedly. I surly didn't mean that to be snotty if it came across that way. I was just wanting to let you know that I went there and read it. I have no problem looking into different ways to take care of issues with children. Ecspecially as they get older. Spankings are not something I do without consideration of other alternatives. It was rare that mine actually got one, and now that he is older, I look for other ways to punish. Taking privledges away works pretty well now. He loves his game box. LOL

[Bluetree]

I give the child a stare that would chill steam. On many MANY occasions, the child, who might be used to manipulating a parent, won't try the same to a strange adult. I've had lots of them cut the crap IMMEDIATELY. Yeah, they're probably scared. Or at least surprised.

I used to have a studio inside a professional office building/business park which had a lovely atrium garden and water fountain. The gardeners were out several times a week trying to keep it blooming and beautiful, always posting the "keep off" signs.

The thing was, many parents who came to do business in the building left their children alone, loose in the atrium. The kids would be climbing the trees, digging up the soil, tearing leaves off plants and climbing into the fountain, all the while screaming like banshees. One kid actually pulled up plants by the roots to throw at his sibling.

If I ran into the parents in the hallway, I'd have to tell them that the office building is not a playground. They'd look at me like they'd never heard of a professional environment.
If I had to go out and stop the children from tearing up the place, I'd put on my Stern Face, walk out there and say in my best scary Stern Voice: "STOP. NOW. YOU WILL BE QUIET." They'd get all google-eyed and stop.

It's not the kids I mind so much, it's their idiotic parents who tacitly give them permission to do so. BTW, the other tenants started calling me The Terminator.

[Python]

I watched a programme on television a few years back when the anti-spanking brigade were being very vociferous. Parents generally fell into two categories:

Quiet Reasoners

and

Quick Belters

(of course, nowadays we have a third category of parent - couldn't-care-lessers)

Anyway, when a child is under 5, they haven't got the reasoning capability, so Mum or Dad explaining why they shouldn't be doing what they're doing doesn't work. A child of that age doesn't have a good enough grasp of language to understand a fraction of what is being said to them.

On the other hand, a quick slap on the bottom gets the message across and there's no doubt what it means - that is not acceptable behaviour!

On the few times I smacked my kids, I always followed it up with why I'd smacked them, especially once they could understand. There is a whole world of difference between smacking a child because you love them and want them to be well-behaved and grow into good, decent adults and battering kids for the hell of it. Unfortunately, the "don't smack your kids brigade" can't tell the difference between the two.

I don't know what it's like in the States, but since parents and schools basically had the right to smack and discipline kids taken away from them, the crime rate amongst youngsters has rocketed. It doesn't take much working out why.

As a tailpiece, here's a little story.

My cat had 5 kittens, and as kittens do, as they got older, they got more boisterous. Mum Puss (Topsy) was sitting curled up contentedly infront of the fire. Meanwhile the kittens were having a funny half-hour, chasing each other, shredding my legs etc. They then decided it would be great fun to pounce on Mum. First she gave them a filthy look, stood up, turned round and settled down again. They carried on pouncing on her. Then she turned round very fast and hissed and growled at them. Four out of the five took the hint - Mum didn't want to be annoyed. Topsy curled back down again, but I could see she was irritated by the way the tip of her tail kept flicking. One of the kittens, Poppy decided to push her luck and pounced on Mum's tail. With a loud hiss and a growl, Topsy gave Poppy such a smack round the head that she rolled half way across the living-room. She took the hint after that and left Mum alone. A little later, Mum and kittens were all curled up together purring

We got good homes for four of the kittens and kept Poppy. She and her Mum go out exploring together and where you see one, you always find the other.

Even animals discipline their young.

[Trekhawk]

RESPECT
I think you need to teach this to children in the early years. Respect for other people, respect for others property, respect for the environment and respect for themselves.

All kids will play up at some time that is just life (Im not always well behaved myself and have been know to throw a hissy fit just ask my husband) but I do firmly believe you reap what you sow. If children understand from an early age what you expect from them life is much easier. I have friends who let their children jump up and down on the furniture, tear around the house , pull up plants from their garden and generally cause mayhem everywhere. Now this is ok at YOUR house but kids need to know the difference when they visit others. We dont jump on furniture at my house and my kids know this. They also know that mum loves gardening so they would never think its ok to pull out a plant in my garden because 1 its nature and 2 it would make mum very sad.

Kids I truly believe want to do the right thing, sometimes they are just lacking guidance.

Now as far as supermarkets go hmmm for most mums that one is fraught with danger.

Next time you see a mum looking stressed smile at her, sometimes its these little things that help mums get through a tough day.

[Python]

I remember when I was little, if we went visiting, my Mum used to hiss at us "Now you be on your best behaviour...or else!" Both my brother and I knew what the or else was. We behaved

[fixedgeargirl]

Oooh boy, I have had to securely lock my soap box in the closet for this one. I'll just let Tuckervill say it for me:

I don't believe in coddling, spoiling, back-talk, disrespect, running in the aisles, riding on the wrong side of the bike lane, or lack of discipline. I also don't believe adults always have it all together and I believe that children are one of the last classes of people that it's okay to disrespect, discriminate against and despise. I also do not believe in spanking/smacking/hitting/beating/corporal punishment.

Thanks for posting those links, Tuckervill.

[mimitabby]

As a tailpiece, here's a little story.

My cat had 5 kittens, and as kittens do, as they got older, they got more boisterous. Mum Puss (Topsy) was sitting curled up contentedly infront of the fire. Meanwhile the kittens were having a funny half-hour, chasing each other, shredding my legs etc. They then decided it would be great fun to pounce on Mum. First she gave them a filthy look, stood up, turned round and settled down again. They carried on pouncing on her. Then she turned round very fast and hissed and growled at them. Four out of the five took the hint - Mum didn't want to be annoyed. Topsy curled back down again, but I could see she was irritated by the way the tip of her tail kept flicking. One of the kittens, Poppy decided to push her luck and pounced on Mum's tail. With a loud hiss and a growl, Topsy gave Poppy such a smack round the head that she rolled half way across the living-room. She took the hint after that and left Mum alone. A little later, Mum and kittens were all curled up together purring

We got good homes for four of the kittens and kept Poppy. She and her Mum go out exploring together and where you see one, you always find the other.

Even animals discipline their young.

gosh, where were you when my cousin was doing her pathetic tender love thing with her monster children????

[Brandy]

Oooh boy, I have had to securely lock my soap box in the closet for this one. I'll just let Tuckervill say it for me:

Thanks for posting those links, Tuckervill.

I wish that you wouldn't fixedgeargirl. We've certainly heard everyone else's opinion on this thread.

[pepe6599]

This is what I think... I takes a pretty special person to deal with those "unruley kids", but someone elses opinion of unruly could be another person opinion of behaving. I try to make a rule of thumb that every kid can be worst then the worst.

[maillotpois]

Veronica - who did not laugh when the kid passed gas because she was doing read aloud and it was not appropriate.

Oh liar liar pants (possibly quite literally) on fire.

[Veronica]

Oh liar liar pants (possibly quite literally) on fire.

I'm not fibbing. But I did deliberatly crack the class up saying fart several times.

Ohhhhh... and at back to school night, talking about family life (sex ed in our district) I said penis - in front of all those parents! Our sex ed curriculum is too explicit.

V.