WSD bikes and Cranky LBS owner

[FloridaGal]

So I just called the Trek Dealer in a different town than the LBS I have been working with to see if they have any Pilots I could test ride and he went on a tirade about how he hates WSD bikes and isn't fond of the Pilots either! He said that the WSD bikes are a "bunch of crap" and that they position riders so that their legs are in front of the crank, when in fact for proper riding, one's legs are supposed to be behind the crank.(that did not make sense to me) Said if I went into his shop and asked for a WSD he would talk me out of it ! He also said he could turn any bike into a pilot (that is, make the stem higher) and then if I wanted it lower later I could go back to the lower position. I explained to him I have some shoulder and neck issues and feel better in the higher position but he kind of scoffed at me. He's the owner of this shop! He promised to give me a proper education if I went there but I am turned off and probably ever go to that store.

I have really noticed a difference on the WSD bikes I have tested but now I am wondering if there is any truth to what the cranky LBS owner was saying. I've been to about 8 different bike shops and most have them have praised the WSD

I am happy with the fit my regular LBS gave me. I felt they took into consideration my health needs, my leg length discrepancies, etc. And they are not pushing a bike, or trying to push a sale right now but rather ride as many bikes, as I want until I find the right one.

How many of you are on WSD bikes? Do you really notice a difference? I am 5-4 and VERY short waisted.

I guess I am babbling without getting to my question..Should I just ignore the rant of cranky LBS or does he know what he is talking about?

[7rider]

My LBS is anti-Pilot, too. And they are a big Trek dealer.
I cannot really say what their issue is, specifically. I think they think the whole line is a "gimmick" but I don't want to put words in their mouth. They will certainly order you up one if you insist on it...but they don't stock them.
I can't really say how they stand on WSD bikes...I've seen some in the shop. I'm big - 5'9" - and fit pretty much anything so I've never really looked at them. However, I ride with one smaller woman who fits fine on her "regular" Trek 5200. The only issue she has is the reach of the STI shifter. Her hands are fairly small. Something like that could be swapped out easily with more user friendly shifters, so long as the frame/stem fits okay.
I would think with proper fitting, a WSD bike is not necessary for EVERY woman. But, I think for smaller women, I could probably see the utility.

[SadieKate]

Well, my LBS likes some WSD bikes. There are a few which do have the seat angle kind of messed up and you can end up positioned too far forward of the crank. In other words, yes, to what he said. But not all WDS bikes are equal and this problem may not occur in all sizes and definitely not in all brands.

I'm 5' 3 1/2" and very shortwaisted. I've never ridden a WSD bike. Haven't a clue if it would serve me well at all. I've always bought my bikes based on top tube length and then used components to fit my smaller everything (bar widths, Campy levers, short cranks, etc.). That said, I've always had my bars fairly low on purpose. A stem with a bit of rise would bring them up if I had neck issues.

Are you set on having a Pilot? What does your own LBS have and did you like it?

[laughlaugh18]

I love, love, love my 15" WSD Trek 7.5fx (which is a hybrid, not a road bike). I'm 5'2" and have neck/shoulder issues as well. My LBS let me try the 7.5fx in WSD and non-WSD version, and I test rode a bunch of other bikes at a bunch of places. The WSD was clearly more comfortable for me, and even with that we still put a shorter stem on it. My LBS had nothing bad to say about WSD bikes (but I wasn't looking at the Pilot so I don't know what they thought about it).

Sounds like this guy is like oh so many Trek dealers I've dealt with - incredibly rude and snobby. I vote for ignore!

[Adventure Girl]

Dismissing all WSD bikes is just as foolish as considering only WSD bikes. Each person has unique geometry. That unique geometry may or may not fit a certain bike in a certain size.

Beyond that, from what you posted about your phone call with this guy, I'd avoid the shop like the plague. Maybe he has a strong opinion about the subject, but it sounds like he thinks that the Trek Pilot WSD will not fit a single one of 6.5 billion people on earth. And he was cranky about it!

You have choices.

[FloridaGal]

LBS has several WSD bikes. I have riden a few. The one I have riden and loved is the Lemond Tourmalet. I really don't want bike with handlebars that are too low because of my neck/shoulder problems . I am leaning towards the Lemond but I really want to compare it to a pilot and no one seems tohave any now.

[esther231]

I have the Pilot WSD 1.2 47 and am very happy with it. It fits my body really well. I'm short - 5' 1". I'm long waisted for my height.

What I truly love about it is how upright I can be on it when I'm on the top of the handle bar. I'm completely upright. When I'm on the hoods, I can bend down well into them with my arms relaxed. And when I'm in the drops, I'm bent as much as I can be. It just fits me. I think that's the most important thing about any bike for any rider.

No matter what it's called.

[caligurl]

all 3 of my bikes are WSD.... but from specialized.... i don't know if my LBS has an aversion to trek WSD..... but they sure do love and talk up specialized! but that could be just to me... cuz they know i'm a fan (and that i'm lusting after the new WSD s-works! lol!)

they sell both trek and specialized.....

[whateveronfire]

I just finished helping a friend buy a Pilot 1.2 at a Trek-only store near his house. They're a Trek concept store and were VERY pro-Pilot. He's just getting back into riding and it seemed like a good choice for him.

The LBS I bought my bike from is a big Trek dealer and they were very pro-WSD. I don't need a WSD because I'm 5'8" and the LeMond fits me better than any other bike. (The guy actually laughed when he saw how I had my Trek 1200 set-up--he said it looked just like a LeMond set-up with the setback, etc.)

Anyway, I wouldn't buy from a dealer who dissed his/her own brands on the phone.

[tygab]

... and I love it also. I am 5'3 and my LBS spent a goodly amount of time fitting me, adjusting seat, bars and so on.

I am also of the opinion that there are different bikes for different people, and to presume all WSD bikes won't work for all women, seems a bit odd. I certainly wouldn't go to an LBS you don't feel comfortable with.

My very far removed interpretation of the situation is that the bike guy is saying something like "I know what they do to a bike to make it a women's bike and I can do all that too because <my words here> I am a smart bike guy." This I think assumes the frame sizing doesn't matter, but the components can be swapped around. Which may be the case, but if so, is he packaging some of his in stock bikes so adapted for this set of customers to come in and try out? If not, how does he expect to service those who are small and/or have shorter arm reach?

All that said, I was disappointed to realize the Specialized women's bike which had similar componentry and frame qualities to my husband's model was nearly 700-800 dollars more at my LBS. For what I cannot tell you. I did not see this problem in the Trek line and felt for the money I paid, I was getting a bike every bit as good as their men's cycles at that price point.

I think my bike meets all my current needs, which is that of a newbie but a fairly serious one. I will have to see in a few years thoguh if there will be things I want in a road bike that my current bike can't offer and that somehow I can justify spending for. Who knows... I already have drooled at several carbon fiber frames and some of the 'niche' builders but have told myself I have to do a lot more riding before I can entertain such things. It's always fun to imagine I am an advanced rider who will actually notice the difference in these things, but right now I am just a hill slug.

[mimitabby]

the guy at my LBS seemed to think that the trek WSD's were just the thing for my 5 foot tall neice.

[snapdragen]

Sounds like one of the LBS's near me. Only this guy refuses to carry anything but road bikes and mountain bikes. Hybrids are a waste of time in his opinion - just a marketing tool.

[Commit2BFit]

I bought a Pilot 5.2 WSD this year. I absolutely love it.

I am 5'4" and long waisted, but I still have a terrible time finding a bike with a comfortable top tube length. My LBS thought they could fit me on standard Pilot, but they agreed the WSD was a better fit.

I love the more upright riding position of the Pilot. I am properly positioned for an efficent pedal stroke and the smaller STI shifters are a godsend. I have small hands and riding with the standard size STI was painful.

My previous bike is a Sequoia Elite, which is a great bike, but it just doesn't fit like the Pilot.

[Geonz]

The LBS may indeed know what he's talking about... but it may not apply to you. What is "proper" cycling position? I would ask him "proper for what?" for maximum efficiency? for minimal back strain?
He seems to assume that nobody in their right mind would keep a higher body position, because he implies that a person would probably want to go back to a lower position, which to me is a clue that he may be locked into "everybody should ride like I do."
Now I want to go out and examine all the bicycling backsides and see if other bikes (besides racing ones) put the legs in front of the crank or not. I think there could be validity to this... I've always felt more efficient on a slight upgrade, and wondered if the different angle - which would be, sending the legs behind the crank with the tilt - was behind that.
Hmmm.... so does he like Joe Breezer bikes, which it would seem throw the legs even further behind the crank?
Anyway... the other thing about LBS dudes is often they don't have the greatest social skills...

[Jo-n-NY]

I also have a WSD, a Specialized Dolce. Before trying it I tried the Allez and there was a huge difference. I am 5'2" and I felt that my arm stretch to the handlebars and brakes on the Allez was more then a stretch than I was comfortable with. My legs are in prefect alignment with the crank. I "think" that with a WSD it is more about the upper body reach than the leg length.

The first thought I have when riding my bike is "it fits me like a glove" and I never had that thought with any other bike that I have owned.