Riding in groups - semi-vent

[witeowl]

OK, I didn't want to hijack this thread, but the following statement made me remember my last few rides with the LBC:

No need to be right on the wheel in front

Now, I'll ride at what I consider a safe distance from the person in front of me. In fact, if I get any closer, I'm afraid that they're going to brake and I'm going to clip them and we're both going down.

Invariably, I get passed by someone, and he rejoins the group RIGHT in front of me, so I have to slow down so that I'm at what I consider a safe distance.

Rinse and repeat until I'm at the back of the pack, but not because I can't keep up. (Hills, of course, are an exception. A turtle with one leg can pass me then.)

But on the flats and shallow hills, it's really kind of irritating. Why do they do this? Can they not stand the thought of being behind a fat chick? You'd think I'd create plenty of draft behind me! I just don't get it, and it's really a bit irritating...

OK, you can go back to your regularly scheduled happy posts.

[DDH]

IMPO, I think it's because people in general cannot stand to be behind someone else. They do the same things in cars, and that drives me crazy too. Why would you pass me, make me slow down, and then go slower so that before you know it I am passing you.

I can understand your frustration, that would drive me crazy too. I go on my first organized ride Sat. So I will have to remember that so I don't do it to someone else unknowingly.
Of course I am a fat chick too, so it will probably be everyone passing me. LOL

I think what I would do is pass them back if they don't speed up. Or knowing me I would probably open my big fat mouth and say some smart remark and make everyone hate me. LOL Sorry, but I don't have much patience for inconsiderate people, and I know I am not perfect either, but if someone points out to me something I am doing wrong, I try to remember it and correct it and not do it again. I don't want to be inconsiderate to others and would never do it intentionally.

[Fredwina]

what Gender were said riders? I get that with guys. I guess they're afiard of losing face if they get passed by a Girl.....

[tulip]

Sounds like he's trying to do a paceline, although backwards. Annoying, isn't it?

[mimitabby]

.

Invariably, I get passed by someone, and he rejoins the group RIGHT in front of me, so I have to slow down so that I'm at what I consider a safe distance.

Rinse and repeat until I'm at the back of the pack, but not because I can't keep up. (Hills, of course, are an exception. A turtle with one leg can pass me then.)

OK, you can go back to your regularly scheduled happy posts.

lol!! this happens to me on the interstate IN MY CAR all the time.
I like a safe following distance. Sound familiar?

[spokewench]

Riding in groups is a great thing and can be really frustrating. Everyone's "safe distance" is different. I ride a few inches from the wheel in front of me and if it is a group ride with people that halfway know what they are doing it is okay. If it is group that does not and you and the group are not comfortable riding close, you should not. But, don't be surprised when someone passes you if you have a bike length or more in front of you.

I would pass you because and/or 1, this is a sign that you are uncomfortable riding in a pack; 2 you are not going to be able to stay with the group that you are dropping off the pack; 3 that you do not want to flow to the front of the pack and pull because you are tired and that you just want to take advantage of the draft at the back of the pack. Riding in front of you is is called filling the hole! It is totally acceptable pack riding etiquette. I really don't care if that person is some studly man or as you call yourself a fat girl (don't really think you are that).

IF I am in a group that does not ride well together and no one knows pack riding etiquette I either teach the riders in the group if they are agreeable or ride by myself if it is too unsafe, i.e. wobbly riders, overlapping wheels, inattention, etc. If I have decided to opt out, they can ride however they want, I will take care of myself.

Riding in packs takes practice and someone to help you with the ins and out of etiquette. You also have to bend your elbows be relaxed and go with the flow. Try to find someone who can help you on these rides. If you see someone who seems to know what they are doing - go up to them and ask them to help you. If there is a ride leader and they know what they are doing (not all do), ask them for help! It is really fun not to be afraid to ride in groups. So work on it

[limewave]

Witeowl,
I can understand your frustration. Although, I do have to say that when I'm riding in a paceline, I do stay as close to the wheel of the person in front of me as I can. But that's usually when I'm riding with experienced riders in a fast group ride. If the person in front of me leaves a good distance between themselves and the rider in front of them, I will pass and fill in the gap because I don't want to risk getting dropped by the group. Plus I want the benefit of drafting behind more cyclists. Again, that's in an experienced group where most of the riders should know to always pedal and never break without first signaling.
However, there are a couple of other rides that I attend that are more casual, the pace is slower and no one ever gets dropped. Then it's not such a big deal if we get spread out.
It just depends on the group.

[bcipam]

I ride with Clubs most weekdays and weekends and am comfortable and experienced with riding in groups. Now I might have a answer for your problem. One reason why I ride in groups is ok I like the companionship but I also love to paceline. Since you said you always ride somewhat off the last rider, it's possible you are breaking down the paceline. I have been known to ride around someone who won't maintain a paceline to make sure I stay with the "train." Once off the back you are lost forever.

Just something to think about when riding in groups. I know lots of newbie and less experience riders are very cautious and don't feel comfortable on the wheel of the rider in front. I personally will not paceline off someone I don't know or know doesn't ride safe but if behind one of my buds who I ride with regularly, then I am on that wheel and hanging on for all its worth. Also if someone rides alittle "squirrelly" doesn't maintain their line, I will either pass or drop back.

Don't take it personally. Next time it happens see if the group was not pacelining. If so, then you either need to hone your skills or drop back and allow those that want to hang on go for it. Find some riders that also don't like to paceline and hang with them. Group mentally sometimes takes over - people don't want to be dropped and will do anything to stay with the pack.

[DDH]

Okay, now that some of you more experienced riders have explained this, I will remember to not be a smart butt. LOL
I really wouldn't have been anyway though. I don't want to make enemies from the start.
Thanks though for explaining, because it does help those of us without the experience or knowledge to know the whys, hows, if, and buts.

[Geonz]

Yup... what they said -- if I were behind you I'd be thinking, "oy, somebody's butt is being wasted!" (so, you must simply not be fat enough, since the bigger you are, the better the draft). Or, I'd be thinking, "Doesn't she know about drafting? I'll show her how much easier it is to ride..." -- except that then I would proceed to *ask* you (or perhaps say something utterly all-knowing-sounding and you could think..."aaargh!") if you knew about drafting, unless of course we were going a little too fast for me to gasp that out... in which case I'd have just sucked on your wheel...
I think, though, that if I cut in and then you dropped back, I would make the obvious inference, especially if we weren't changing speeds. If you were having trouble keeping up, then my wide butt in front of you should have made it easier and you'd hang while you could.

[SouthernBelle]

Reminds me of my first charity ride. I ended up riding behind this really big guy. I told him I was going to draft him as long as I possibly could. Fortunately he just thought it was funny and said go ahead. We rode together for miles.

[bluerider]

OK, I didn't want to hijack this thread, but the following statement made me remember my last few rides with the LBC:



Now, I'll ride at what I consider a safe distance from the person in front of me. In fact, if I get any closer, I'm afraid that they're going to brake and I'm going to clip them and we're both going down.

Invariably, I get passed by someone, and he rejoins the group RIGHT in front of me, so I have to slow down so that I'm at what I consider a safe distance.

Rinse and repeat until I'm at the back of the pack, but not because I can't keep up. (Hills, of course, are an exception. A turtle with one leg can pass me then.)

But on the flats and shallow hills, it's really kind of irritating. Why do they do this? Can they not stand the thought of being behind a fat chick? You'd think I'd create plenty of draft behind me! I just don't get it, and it's really a bit irritating...

OK, you can go back to your regularly scheduled happy posts.

Hi witeowl,

I understand your frustration but I really don't believe the riders in your group are doing this on purpose. I ride very close to the wheel ahead of me because I trust the rider in front of me. You have to trust the rider in front of you. If you're a new rider, I can understand the hesitation but as you ride more often with the group, it's important you develop this trust.

A gap in the peleton has a ripple effect, as you accelerate each time to catch up, the riders behind you have to do as well. At the end of the day, you have to preserve the pack. I do think the other riders should provide some friendly instruction. When I first started I was told time and time again to stay on the front rider's wheel and not to accelerate through turns etc.

Don't get too frustrated and keep at it. Happy riding!

[KnottedYet]

I ride my myself most of the time, and always keep a few bike lengths between me and the strangers in front of me on the bike trail.

Seems like that's the right thing for me to be doing in this case.

Now, if I get riding with some experienced folks who I know and trust, I'll ask them to teach me how to ride in a pace line, and I'll be closer to them.

The last time I was in a group ride the person ahead of me was all over the road and wobbling/bobbing around. Scared me and the cars sharing the road. I stayed well back, it seemed dangerous to be any closer. Even though it meant I was bringing up the rear.

[witeowl]

OK, I think some of you hit on some really good points, some of which nick my ego a bit more than just blaming it on machismo (yes, they are all men that do this), but it may be time to face facts on this point.

First, I don't have a full bike length between the rear wheel of the person ahead of me and my front wheel. Really, I think it's just a few inches, but I might be misjudging.

Also, when this happens, we're more in a pack than a paceline, so that leads a bit to the probable heart of the matter: I may not ride as "straight" as I should. Perhaps, as at least one of you alluded to, they may be passing me because I make them nervous by being a bit squirrly.

Definately something to work on - and thanks for the friendly and honest perspective, all.

(Woe is me that my first footrace (only 2 miles) is on the same day as the LBC's beginner's ride! I probably could learn a lot about pack riding and pacelines, not to mention other ettiquette!)

Oh, but hey - here's a(nother) stupid question (I can hijack my own thread, right? ) : I know that drafting makes riding easier on the person behind, but does it make it harder on the person in front?

[bcipam]

Yes the front person carries most of the effort which is why riders in a paceline rotate giving the lead a rest. Front goes to back, number two moves up to front. If you watch professional cycling this is a beautiful art form especially if it's windy - paceline rotates almost constantly.