paleo diet question

[Veronica]

I have to admit I have a hard time with the name "paleo". I wish they had come up with something that fit the concept a little bit better.

My question...

Why is beef ok and butter, but not cow's milk? Did my paleo ancestors really churn butter and then clarify it?

Veronica

[GLC1968]

No, they definitely did not. I seriously doubt a woolly mammoth would give up milk without killing the milk-maid in the process!

The beef fat is really only OK if it comes from a grass-fed source. In that case, the fat profile is healthier for you (and consequently, closer to a wild animal). Today's feed-lot beef is not OK, which is why, in those cases, leaner cuts are recommended. Feeding cattle on mostly corn (and then pumping them full of antibiotics to keep them alive) creates a very unhealthy ratio of Omega-6 to Omega-3 fats leading to a whole host of problems in both the cattle and in the humans who consume it.

I try to be realistic - if I eat a fatty cut, I only do it from grass-fed sources (which are luckily easy to find for me...but expensive). If I'm eating out, for example, then I'll stick to leaner cuts or choose some other type of meat.

Butter is only OK because once you clarify it, the only thing left is the fat. If the fat comes from a pastured source, then again, the fat profile is correct and therefore not really any different from the fat off the animal itself. The rest of the dairy makeup is not as easy to digest, so it should be avoided.

Personally, we still eat raw dairy. We use the raw goats milk from our goats and I do buy raw milk cheeses on occasion. The general belief is that the good bacteria and microbes in the raw milk make it easier to digest (which we know is true based on how my lactose intolerant husband handles raw products compared to commercial dairy). This is a personal choice on our part though as most paleo proponents would shun all dairy.

I also have a hard time with all the coconut products promoted on the diet. I find the coconut craze amongst strict paleo dieters to be kind of hypocritical, actually. I do use some coconut products, but I try to limit them except for occasional treats. Somehow, raw goats milk seems more 'natural' to me than coconut milk that you make in a blender with hot water and coconut meat...but what do I know?

The basic idea behind the diet (or the way I look at it) is to remove ALL potential problem foods (grains, dairy, legumes including soy, sugar, etc) for 4 - 6 weeks and then add them back in, one at at time, to find what works for YOU. Everyone is different, so everyone has to find what is optimal for their bodies. Personally, I'm ok with raw dairy but my body does not like coconut flour or brown rice. I think I can digest gluten well enough, but it triggers crazy cravings and food obsession for me...so I avoid it. Sugar too (for the same reasons). What I haven't yet tried are legumes - I'll give those a shot in January and see how I do.

[TsPoet]

GLC' answer was dietetic, not "paleo".
The Paleo answer is, butter isn't. A true, strict paleo diet doesn't allow butter. Then again, a true strict paleo diet doesn't allow cooking.
My SO is big into the paleo, due to him I've read a couple of books on it, and the "science" is horribly stupid. The very first contention is that we are >9x% genetically identical to cavemen. Well, we are >97% genetically identical to mice and any other mammal you can think of, so forget it. Also, many studies are now showing that dogs aren't domesticated wolves (I really didn't just change topics, I think the dog=wolf argument is more valid than the modern human=caveman argument).
The paleo people I know all allow butter, especially if it's home made. Many also allow beer, but not oats (my SO doesn't, too his credit).
The addition of butter comes from the expansion of the "paleo" concept to "neolithic" times - when hunter/gatherers started switching to a more agricultural-like lifestyle (but wasn't there quite yet).
The good thing about the paleo diet really is the low carbness of it (I just made up a word, I'm so proud). Some strict paleo folks I know don't allow tomatoes as having too many carbs (~5 g/whole medium tomato), or green beans, or a number of veggies.
Due to my SO, I've gone somewhat paleo, but I refuse to eat all of the fat that's "allowed", including butter, and I eat fruit and any type of veggie I want, they can all stuff their paleo rules.

[GLC1968]

GLC' answer was dietetic, not "paleo".
The Paleo answer is, butter isn't. A true, strict paleo diet doesn't allow butter. Then again, a true strict paleo diet doesn't allow cooking.
My SO is big into the paleo, due to him I've read a couple of books on it, and the "science" is horribly stupid. The very first contention is that we are >9x% genetically identical to cavemen. Well, we are >97% genetically identical to mice and any other mammal you can think of, so forget it. Also, many studies are now showing that dogs aren't domesticated wolves (I really didn't just change topics, I think the dog=wolf argument is more valid than the modern human=caveman argument).
The paleo people I know all allow butter, especially if it's home made. Many also allow beer, but not oats (my SO doesn't, too his credit).
The addition of butter comes from the expansion of the "paleo" concept to "neolithic" times - when hunter/gatherers started switching to a more agricultural-like lifestyle (but wasn't there quite yet).
The good thing about the paleo diet really is the low carbness of it (I just made up a word, I'm so proud). Some strict paleo folks I know don't allow tomatoes as having too many carbs (~5 g/whole medium tomato), or green beans, or a number of veggies.
Due to my SO, I've gone somewhat paleo, but I refuse to eat all of the fat that's "allowed", including butter, and I eat fruit and any type of veggie I want, they can all stuff their paleo rules.

Wow, you know some crazy paleo people! How would beer ever be ok? That's grain based!

The info I gave is paraphrased from the recent literature on it predominantly by Robb Wolf and originally Loren Cordain. I don't know that either of them really want to emulate what our paleolithic ancestors ate. Their take is that we take what they ate as a guide or starting point, and then update it to be the healthiest we can be using modern food availability and recent research. Personally, I get the idea of trying to be as healthy as possible. I don't get the idea of eating like a cavemen just because we are descendant from cavemen. That argument does not hold water with me at all.

Of course, eating food raw (including meat) would be more accurate, but there is something to be said for having a diet that is enjoyable and sustainable (from a 'eat this way for life' perspective). No diet is worth diddly if one can't stick to it for the long term, right?

V - There are quite a number of good cookbooks recently released. Some are stricter than others so you have to read ingredients and take from them what works best for you. I have the Paleo Comfort Foods and I've made a few things from it, all but one of which have been really good. I haven't tried any of the breakfast type foods though. The chili from that book is excellent, by the way.

My tri book doesn't arrive until tomorrow, but I bet I have it totally read by Tuesday!

[TsPoet]

Of all of my SO's books, this is my favorite. I've liked everything he's made out of it so far (but would make some changes, like adding green chili or something to the Scotch Eggs).

http://www.amazon.com/Well-Fed-Paleo...5184036&sr=1-1


GLC - yeah, I guess I couldn't get past the first page of ALL of the books. I think most people, like you, are more reasonable and read over the pseudo science BS and get to the nutritional 'value' of the diet. I just couldn't do that because I get stuck that way.
Also, most of my "paleo" friends are also crossfitters, so the beer and some of it comes from more of a crossfit mentality than a paleo mentality.

[lph]

I admit I've just read fleetingly about it, but I thought the idea was that the diet humans had existed on for the longest time should be the most healthy, because that's the diet our bodies have had most time to evolve and adapt to. Or have I got it wrong?

I have a few quibbles with this, because evolution doesn't necessarily favour the best possible state of health, it just weeds out the worst cases. So as long as you stayed healthy enough long enough to have as many kids as the Joneses, fat or skinny, your genes were in the running, so to speak

Testing it out gradually and updating it with modern knowledge sounds smart. I like Veronicas name for it!

[GLC1968]

Ah, those pesky crossfitters! They really have done a number on the things they embrace (first the zone diet, now paleo) - it's that totally 'gung-ho' attitude of theirs! (not that there is anything wrong with that, but everyone must consider the source)

Well Fed looks really good. I got my copy a couple of weeks ago, but haven't cooked from it yet. It is by far the best of the books I have in terms of usability in that it shows suggestions for additions/alterations, it shows quantities, the descriptions are great, etc. I also really like Make it Paleo - particularly for the 'treats' but so far, we've liked everything we've tried from it. I have also had good luck with Everyday Paleo for the recipes (I didn't even read the rest of the book!) but the food photography isn't great so it's not as enticing of a book. Every single recipe we've tried (even the ones I was unsure about) turned out delicious though.

lph - yeah, that's basically it. The idea is that for ~2.5 million years, early humans ate like this. It's only been in the last ~10,000 years that agriculture has evolved and in terms of time for a species to adapt, 10K years is only a drop in the bucket. Therefore, we are still mostly adapted to eat like the paleolithic people ate. While I'm OK with that as a starting point, it is important to take modern science (sometimes with a grain of salt!) and common sense in today's world into consideration. I mean, half of the plant life and almost all the animal life now on the planet is totally different from what it was then...so we have to be realistic about it.

V - I like your name, too! In fact, if you do eat this way and end up having conversations with people about it, it tends to go MUCH smoother if you don't use the word paleo at all. "Paleo" is like 'Atkins' or "low carb" in that it generates a lot of preconceived notions in people's heads - some right and some wrong.

[Veronica]

Well I'm excited to try some of the recipes in Paleo Comfort Foods book, just to add some variety to my cooking. But the list of things to have in your kitchen seemed a bit odd, hence my question.

They really should have called it The Avoid All the Crap That May Give You Health Problems diet. I suppose that's not as catchy.

Have you made the egg muffins yet? It says they can be frozen, but doesn't say how to reheat them.

Veronica

On another note - got my tri bible yesterday. I'm on chapter 4. It makes so much more sense to me now!

[spindizzy]

They really should have called it The Avoid All the Crap That May Give You Health Problems diet.

Exactly!

I had trouble losing my last 7-10 lbs. Adopted the basic tenets of this eating plan. Dropped the weight. Felt fantastic. And after about 90% of my workouts, I had no to minimal muscle pain. I had the best year of competition in my life.

I basically allow little to no processed food. Enjoy an alcoholic beverage now and then and the ocassional treat. As with all things, you need to find what works for you.

As for CrossFit - love it but the metcon workouts totally killed my 2010 year. When I get back to it (after the broken ankle heals) my goal is to be the last one completing the WOD. And I will wear my HRM to ensure I stay aerobic!

[Sky King]

Personally, I'm ok with raw dairy but my body does not like coconut flour or brown rice. I think I can digest gluten well enough, but it triggers crazy cravings and food obsession for me...so I avoid it. Sugar too (for the same reasons). What I haven't yet tried are legumes - I'll give those a shot in January and see how I do.

While I think the Paleo Diet is just another way for people to make money....
I wanted to point out that you may be allergic to coconut. I am horribly allergic to coconut and to soy.

I have to note that the bike hermit would die on the paleo diet and I lost 25 pounds and kept if off for 30 years once I started eating like the bike hermit - which is primarily veggies, fruit and -GASP - Pasta. We eat meat maybe once a week and rarely eat meat when bike touring.

Again, eating a balanced diet of healthy foods goes a long way, now if I can cut down on my beer intake...

[GLC1968]

While I think the Paleo Diet is just another way for people to make money....
I wanted to point out that you may be allergic to coconut. I am horribly allergic to coconut and to soy.

I have to note that the bike hermit would die on the paleo diet and I lost 25 pounds and kept if off for 30 years once I started eating like the bike hermit - which is primarily veggies, fruit and -GASP - Pasta. We eat meat maybe once a week and rarely eat meat when bike touring.

Again, eating a balanced diet of healthy foods goes a long way, now if I can cut down on my beer intake...

It may be a coconut sensitivity, true. I'm fine with coconut oil and shredded or flaked coconut, but when you eat those things, it's typically in really small quantities. Coconut flour is so processed into something not even resembling a coconut and when consumed, it's in a much more highly concentrated quantity. That might be why it gets to me, I don't know. It's easy enough to avoid though, so I don't sweat it.

The paleo diet has a name purely because that's what someone decided to call it and it stuck. There is no official licence on the word like there is on South Beach or Atkins or Weight Watchers and there are no "paleo" branded foods on the shelves of your supermarket. In fact, depending on which books you read, there are lots of names for it (Primal, Neanderthin, Paleo Diet, Paleo Solution, etc) so I really don't think it's a marketing tactic. Who exactly is making money? Bloggers? Cookbook authors? Somehow, I doubt they are going to retire on their salaries.

I should also point out that while I love it and how it makes me feel about food, I recognize that this diet is not a miracle or anything. I mean, if you are celiac and didn't know it, then the switch may seem like a miracle, I'm sure. But for those of us who chose to eat this way for non-medical reasons, it's just another way of eating. No different than vegan or vegetarian or any other chosen way to eat. What I don't understand is why there is such an obvious bias against the diet from non-paleo people. I know that most paleo proponents are super gung-ho and highly annoying, but that is no reason to dismiss the way someone chooses to eat.

Anyway, I'm not directing this at anyone here in particular, just my general observations. It's why I hesitate to even use the word paleo in casual conversation anymore!