Calorie deprivation - how bad is it really?

[channlluv]

Okay, so DH bought me an iPhone for my birthday and I've set it up with their Lose It! app (free, if anyone's got an iPhone and is interested). It's a weight loss program that allows you to record your food intake and exercise. You input your age, current weight, goal weight, and it tells you how many calories you can budget for each day and how long it should take you to reach your goal. My calorie budget is 1553. (ETA to goal weight: July 2010.)

You record everything you eat as you eat it and it tells you how many calories you have left for the day. I've heard of a similar concept with someone doing this by hand using a checkbook register to calculate. When you add in your exercise, it adds back more calories.

I only started a few days ago, on the 25th, and it's an easy program to use, and I already see that I really need to watch my sodium intake and up my protein intake vs. carbs.

On Saturday, when I rode 50 miles, I had a calorie deficit of 1,500. DH said I should eat more that day (this was after we'd already gone to Islands for lunch), so we stopped for frozen yogurt on the way home from driving his century route (he's riding the Tour of Poway this Sunday). I still had a 1,000 calorie deficit for the day.

Now, for you nutrition experts, is that really that bad? Won't my body pull on my fat stores to make up the difference? I didn't work out today and I'm only down 200 calories for the day, so I'm guessing cumulatively, it will even out, but still. Two or three 2,000-calorie deficit days on top of the already-budgeted-to-lose-2lbs-per-week, that would make me lose even more, wouldn't it? Or will it backfire and make my body think it's starving and I'll never drop below 240? Argh. It's just all so doggone complicated.

Roxy

[staceysue]

When you try to lose weight too fast, it backfires because your body goes into a hypometabolic state. It thinks it's starving and becomes very efficient at saving calories. Your energy drops. You have to keep your energy level high.

I lost over 60 lbs several years ago and I've kept 40 lbs of it off. My personal experience has been that it's good to alternate days that you have a big calorie deficit with days where you get enough calories or even a few extra calories. You have to shake things up a bit. I also found that my weight loss would show up the morning after a day that I ate a lot. For example, I ran about 5 days a week and watched my calorie intake closely. Friday (the 5th day of being "good") the scale wouldn't have budged. Saturday, I'd skip working out and go out drinking and consume a lot of extra calories. Sunday morning, the scale would show I'd dropped 2 lbs. It worked that way pretty consistently.

[Maxxxie]

The Lose It app sounds very similiar to the Biggest Loser Club's system. Basically recording calories in vs calories out.

From memory, BLC recommend a daily deficit of between 300-500 calories from exercise. They also recommend that you get within 200 calories of your daily intake allocation, and never below 1200 calories. Their recommended intakes are based on your current weight and current activity levels. For reference, I started out at 1800 cal per day when I was 95Kg. Now I'm at around 67Kg, and my daily allocation is 1500 per day.

If you under-eat, your body will go into starvation mode (though the deficit required to produce that result is not known to me). When I started doing longer rides, burning up to 3000 cal, I asked the BLC nutritionists for advice on whether I should eat more, and if so, what. Their response was that if I felt hungry, that I should feel free to eat more, even if meant going over my normal daily intake allocation (which is based on the assumption that the exercise you do is between 300-500 cal per day - not 3000!). They recommended high protein foods so that I would feel full for longer. Their emphasis was on making sure I ate good food - not processed snacks or calorie-dense rubbish or whatnot. For me, a couple of bananas really hit the spot after a long ride. Boiled eggs are good too.

You need to ensure you don't overdo it. Regular small lots of exercise will produce weight loss. Regular huge lots of exercise will leave you feeling tired, hungry and unmotivated. The key is balance (which you already know, since you're monitoring cals in vs cals out). I can tell you from experience that if you stick to your calorie allocation, and exercise moderately 2-3 times a week, you will lose the weight (28 kilos, gone)! The weight loss I achieved on weeks where I did one or more very long rides (on top of the regular 2-3 moderate sessions) was not substantially different from the weight loss achieved from weeks where I did 2-3 moderate exercise sessions.

Hope this helps

Max

[aeiea]

Argh. It's just all so doggone complicated.

Yeah... this is why I don't count calories anymore nor do I work out incessantly. Both require vigilance which is not sustainable for a lifestyle change, which is really what most people are going for when they want to lose weight for the long-term.

And by work-out vigiliance, it wasn't the tiresome working out that was getting to me. It was constantly watching and monitoring what I ate and when I ate it, so that I wouldn't bonk out and/or overeat to compensate for a long workout. Then it was the injuries and recovering from injuries from working out...

And counting calories ... as much as Lose It was helpful in the beginning, mostly for portion control and understanding of current ways, it just got tedious in the long term. Which I suppose is a good thing -- that you can feel like you've graduated from it since you now have a better informed guesstimate of how what you're eating will impact your diet.

Not that I recommend this as a great piece of writing nor health advice, but the general concept of the book "French Women Don't Get Fat" is aim for long-term temperance and portion control. Bryan Kest, Power Yoga guy, said it in a more succinct way. He said you do yoga for fitness, for balance, for calmness. But not for weight loss: "If you want to lose weight, eat less."

Of course, making an informed decision of what to eat less of is useful... but generally I feel like all the math weighs us down.

To each their own, btw.

[cylegoddess]

If you want to lose and keep it off, your going to need some weight training.
Its the only way to decrease body fat, increase muscle which will need more calories per pound.( its 17 kj per fat kilo,as opposed to 310 or so for muscle, at rest).
Too much calorie lack and your body will not function as well( immune system, ect).
Cardio will only take you so far.

[witeowl]

It depends. I can easily handle a deficit of 500-1000 calories. Get me up to 1500 or beyond and I'm biting off heads. I've heard that it's a hormonal reaction.

[Veronica]

Have you talked to a doctor or a nutritionist?

Veronica

[azfiddle]

I'm following this discussion with some interest.... trying to maintain a weight loss program (weightwatchers) as my cycling has increased from a few miles a week up to 80 -90 right now. I've increased how much I'm eating but possibly not enough, and I'm still losing but it's been averaging about 1/2 lb a week.

Sharon

[shootingstar]

Channelluv, just view cycling..as a way of seeing more golden eagles..figurativey speaking so that you cycle several times / wk.

Having a vague idea about overall calories is helpful but on a daily basis ...I dunno how some people do it.

Instead relook at the type of food one eats and how it's flavoured, prepared. Subtract nearly all the deep fried foods and reserve it for occasional times annually.

Does your food have much in hidden sugars?..I was amazed when visiting a friend who told me she was trying to lose weight. I believe her since she keeps up faithfully her 45 min. daily solo walk rain, snow or shine. But some of her savoury cooking...I could really taste the ...sugar. If I have sugar, then I stick to something I expect to have sugar..which is dessert.

Just fall in love with cycling but don't feel it obligates you to eat more..unless you are cycling across California. (You never know! )

[Veronica]

I didn't know what Islands Restaurant was, so I Googled it and discovered it was a hamburger joint. Now don't get me wrong, I love my burgers. But think about what you had there. Their nutritional information is online. http://www.islandsrestaurants.com/me...nal/facts.aspx

Was it healthy? Did you really need more calories from a frozen yogurt?

If you keep doing the same thing in the same way, you are going to keep getting the same results. If you are not happy with those results, you need to change something up.

But that is something only you can decide. Most of the posters on TE are going to be positive and say you're doing great. That's what women do. But I say if you are seriously unhappy and really want to change, you need to seriously look at every aspect of your nutrition and exercise program. Take out the sugars, increase the protein, start doing weights...talk to a professional. Most of the chicks here on TE, myself included, only know what has worked for them. We're all different

Be the change you want to see.


Veronica

[Pedal Wench]

Their nutritional information is online. http://www.islandsrestaurants.com/me...nal/facts.aspx

Veronica

Yikes -- their salads are at least 1,000 calories - sandwiches too. Wow.

[channlluv]

Yikes -- their salads are at least 1,000 calories - sandwiches too. Wow.

Yeah, I found that pretty shocking. I ended up ordering the 200-calorie side salad (instead of fries) which turned out to be a small cup of iceberg lettuce with some shaved purple cabbage and carrots on top, with a quarter cup of ranch dressing on the side. Nixed the dressing, and I'm back to a 50-calorie cup of veggies. Sort of. Does iceberg lettuce count for anything?

Roxy

[tulip]

...If you keep doing the same thing in the same way, you are going to keep getting the same results. If you are not happy with those results, you need to change something up...

But that is something only you can decide. ...

Be the change you want to see.

Veronica

Amen, Sister!

[marni]

Having lost and kept off 125 pounds over the past 4 years I would like to make a few observations.

1. As has been mentioned, trying for a calorie deficit of in excess of 500 calories a day is unrealistic in the long term. Your body will very quickly go into starvation mode wherein in saves fat and starts burning muscle leading to not only feeling hungry but feeling lousy as well. It is far better to focus increasing your variety and level of activity, adding weights and resistance training to increase your lean muscle mass-remembering that muscle burns fat- and dropping your total fat intake to less than 25 %. No you will probably not lose 2 pounds a week every week but what you lose is more likely to stay lost, you will retrain your eating choices and your mind food set, and your general health should increase with the increased activity and decrease of in your diet and on your body.

2. I would not trust the computer programs that a mass produced data bases for calorie burn for activities. Especially in a semi passive non impact exercise like biking there are so many variables. Are you fit or not, how much weight are you moving, are you riding on the flat or hills, are you riding with a tailwind or a headwind, how much are you sweating, how hot is it, what is your metabolic rate, and how fast are you going?

For example, today I did a 70 miles charity ride at an average speed of 14.9 mph. In occasional glances at the speedometer I noted speeeds as low as 8 mph on the14% hills and 40 mph on the down hills The terrain was rolling with some pretty long steeper climbs. 25 miles of the ride was against the wind. The total in saddle time was 4 hours 45 minutes and I burned 1475 calories- I weigh 145 pounds now. At this point because I have trained in at distances above 55 miles, my average calorie burn is about 300 calories an hour. A year ago the same ride would have burne somewhere between 400-450 calories an hour when I weighed 160.

It's all relative.

3. I wear a monitoring device (bodybugg.com) recommended by a sports trainer/dietician that measures my skin temperature, pulse, and sweat % and works it against a logarithmic formula that includes ambient temperature to give me a calorie burn. It has a dieticians food data base that is extremely accurate for calorie content, as well as micronutrient breakdown of fat, protein, carbs etc. Between that and caliper measurements of body fat once a month as well as monthly body measurements, I think I am getting a pretty good breakdown of how much I burn, how much I eat, and where my weak spots are and what my trigger points are. There are several different types and brands out there. I just happen to have started with this one and like it.

4. It is a given point among most dieticians that people unintetionally underestimate their calorie input by 15-25%

5. It is also a sad fact that the machines at the gym are not accurate as far as cardio burn unless you are wearing a chest band, so if you are using a cardio workout as part of your resistance training, a good investment is a polar chest band. the one I use has a watch type monitor which can be preset for cardio rates and to beep or not when you drop below and various other features. (polar.com)

6. At my age, 61, my metabolism is probably slower and lower than that of a younger person. This means that I have to pretty much monitor everything I eat. It's all a matter of lifestyles I guess.

Anyway, yay for you for doing the ride, and good luck with your continued exploration of riding and weight loss. Take it day by day and if you ride, give yourself a small treat but keep it within your daily calorie limit or ride a few extra miles You're out there, you're hot and sweaty anyway, have your treat then ride another mile to keep the post ride burn going.

smooth roads and good tailwinds.

marni

[Reesha]

I strongly recommend the long duration leisurely rides for weight loss that others have mentioned before. They're amazing! Even rides at a higher intensity that are long have a powerful effect in my opinion. The night after a long ride-- like clockwork, I'm always burning up in bed because my body is still gobbling down calories like crazy. Still, I think if you can stay in the saddle and fuel throughout once per week sometime, it will be a good thing for your weight loss goals.

I'm thankful that the other coaches on the high school team I coach has agreed to do 40-60 mile rides each weekend through the winter for that reason I think I'll really see some solid losses over time and even over the last three weeks of 50 mile weekend rides I've had some amazing losses. (I've also been swimming for 30-45 minutes in the morning 4 days a week too)

Good luck, Roxy!!!