Difficult work conversations: a gender perspective

[Melalvai]

I had an experience today that got me thinking about gender issues. I've noticed that, sadly, a lot of events targeted toward "women in science" are poorly attended and there just doesn't seem to be much interest from the women in science, particularly at the trainee (student/postdoc) level. To be honest, I felt this way for a long time, and it is as I've grown older than I've become more aware of how my gender affected school and work.

Today is a good example of that. I walked in to what I knew was going to be a difficult meeting, with my undergrad in tow. I had her with me mainly for moral support. She knew everything that was going on, and I had asked her to come to the meeting with me and to interrupt me if it looked like I was getting teary or emotional. She could probably explain what I was trying to say better than I could.

My soon-to-be-former-boss however is a traditional 51 year old white southern male. I have nothing against such a person, but... He refused to let my student stay in the office for this meeting. I was very angry. I seriously contemplated standing up and saying "If she can't stay, we can't have this meeting." Instead, I merely said, "You'd probably have less waterworks if you'd let her stay." And proceeded to prove myself correct in the subsequent animated discussion.

After the meeting, I thought about this some more, and I realized that if organizations are serious about diversity and gender and such, that they need to tell supervisors that if they have to have a difficult conversation with a female employee, it is a good idea to have another person present. I realized that if he objected to my student, his secretary would have been an acceptable alternative to me. (I call her "my" student. Technically she is if anyone's, his, but he sees her once in a blue moon, hardly remembers her name, and I'm the one she considers to be her boss. I write her recommendation letters and he signs them.)

That brings me to another issue: tears. Ages ago when I was an undergrad, I was on a netnews group (remember those?) for women in science. One day I posted that I don't like crying in front of professors and how do you keep that from happening? The first reply was from a male professor who ranted about how women precisely control their tears to get the most sympathy! A barrage of replies followed condemning him and supporting me but no one had an answer. I have an answer now: have a person with you to provide moral support. It's much easier if you can stop talking, swallow hard, but instead of an awkward silence that other person picks up with "What she means is..."

[shootingstar]

I recall seeing a job ad at a major law library (one of the biggest in Canada) that clearly stated candidates must be good problem-solver, etc....and NOT cry under pressure... I was amazed to see that stated in a .....job ad! Hmmmm..that was 20 years ago.

It probably would be a good idea though if a person's job is working with clients, particularily that clients that do affect the bottom line, that a person try their best not to cry openly in front of them.


In my first job after graduation, working in a place that matched my educational training, my first manager cried just abit in frustration in front of me. She made sure that no one else was around. I was a bit floored to see this dignified, gracious woman. It was over a management problem of she had dealing with some board members.

In retrospect for a newbie, she gave me a valuable, real-life insight in management that no textbook could give to me...

She continued to be a mentor to me...for the next few decades..

[LBTC]

Melavai, that's a difficult situation. I've cried 3 times during a meeting with a boss (3 different bosses), just because my emotions got the better of me. All three were surprised as I'm usually only teary eyed for TV commercials and movies , and all three times I actually got what I wanted, but I did not plan any of the crying events, and was kind of embarrassed by them.

I've been in a meeting where I insisted that I have a witness. It was a gender issue and I was telling my boss that he had no right to question my reproductive future. It was the right thing to just have another person in the room to note that I handled myself with professionalism and to make a record that I'd noted the inappropriate comments and was requesting them be stopped.

Regardless of what your meeting was about, if it's going to be difficult, I think it's important for you to have another party there. Perhaps before the next time you can agree with the person you are meeting with who can join your meeting to give you that relief you need.

Or visualize butterflies. All around you, all around the other guy. You'll both look and feel better and be protected from the "slings and arrows".

Hugs and butterflies,
~T~

[shootingstar]

I've been in a meeting where I insisted that I have a witness. It was a gender issue and I was telling my boss that he had no right to question my reproductive future. It was the right thing to just have another person in the room to note that I handled myself with professionalism and to make a record that I'd noted the inappropriate comments and was requesting them be stopped.~

Ridiculous that boss. When I was 5 years full-time into my career after university, I was delivering a presentation. Suddenly a manager in the audience (of 8 people), asked if I got home on time last night. I was so unprepared for that chauvinisitic line, that I got abit flustered and just ignored his line.

Afterwards a friend (outside of work) told me I should have comeback with: "Old enough to stay up all night".

He was an ex-fire chief/ex-firefighter that became a govn't bureaucrat.
-------------------------------------------------

To handle conflict and negotiate with men at the same table, when I myself wasn't in that role on par/equal in my paid job...I found it most helpful..and without planning on my part, when I was involved as a volunteer for a national board for non-profit organization on human rights and race relations. For about 5 years....before cycling sucked me away.

There I saw how other women on the board dealt with the men... over difficult complex topics involving government policy, media relations, community-building, police relations, social support services, etc. It was great fun and great learning simultaneously. There were some highly skilled women with excellent negotiation skills. These women now manage social service organizations with annual budgets of several million dollars and over 100 staff.

I recommend that....volunteering for a board for a passion that you hold dearly.

[Mr. Bloom]

Mel: I'm one that doesn't personally see this as just a gender issue...it's an issue to anyone that has a heart. By many standards it's a sign of weakness, but people with compassion often have leadership abilities that hard hearted folks can't replicate.

I have had employees - male and female - cry in my presence...and I handed them to tissue box and let them get it out of their system. But, I am not uncomfortable with tears - whether male or female...clearly these other guys are...

Crying is an emotion. Anger is too. If someone gets angry in a meeting and goes ballistic, it's as difficult to handle as someone being inconsolable. Crying may be seen as a weakness, but so is the inability to control a bad temper...and with the temper usually comes legal liability to a lot of "stuff"

Don't be afraid of tearing up, but don't allow yourself to be in a position of becoming inconsolable...get up, take a break and reach deep within for the resolve to clearly and constructively articulate what needs to be said. You might be surprised at how strongly and articulately you convey your point. Having a written outline of thoughts to fall back on can be very helpful in keeping your composure as well.

As to the "moral support" - go for it. No explanation is needed except that "XX is familiar with the situation, has valuable perspective, and can add moral support and depth to the discussion..."

[Velobambina]

Have you read "Emotional Intelligence?" I had a course on it at work and have read parts of the book. Being an emotional person myself (and someone who has cried in front of bosses), I found it an excellent read and I loved the course.

If you don't feel comfortable showing your emotions in front of someone, you'll need to come up with a way to do a "self intervention." My trick is to write--"strength" or "dignity"---on a notepad and take it in to a potentially tear invoking meeting with me. If I feel like I might start, I look down at the word.

If my boss can handle the tears, I let them fly. I tend to be very honest and it's hard for me to hide my emotions. Like Mr. Silver, I've had employees, including males, cry in front of me. It does not change my opinion of them. but then, I take a more "humanistic" approach to supervising/mgt.

[tc1]

OK, I have a different perspective. 20+ years in a "traditionally male" field. I see two unrelated issues in your letter. The first is whether or not you need a witness. Only you can answer that, given the situation. A manager with any sense should know that if an employee wants a witness, they should have one.

Second, you can't cry. You just can't, not over work stuff. To avoid it, rehearse mentally beforehand. Tell yourself regarding the boss 'I don't care, you can't hurt me, your opinion doesn't matter, you are too dumb to get emotional about.' Think about the subject, when you get to the point in the exercise where you are going to cry, find something else to think about to stay on topic. Take a deep breath, or two, then keep going.

If you are sad over personal issues you don't have to be in such tight control. But if it just job stuff, don't give them the satisfaction of seeing they hurt you. Part of being in the workplace is appearing tough and in control.

[mupedalpusher]

Melalvai, seems to me that you've made the right decision not to follow this guy to his next destination if he is this uncaring of your feelings. If he doesn't care enough about your feelings to allow you moral support then he's not worth uprooting your family for.

[shootingstar]

If you are sad over personal issues you don't have to be in such tight control. But if it just job stuff, don't give them the satisfaction of seeing they hurt you. Part of being in the workplace is appearing tough and in control.

Maybe in control of tears over work-related matters, not necessarily tough. Every situation is different, but make those tears in public workplace as infrequent as possible. There's always the washroom to retire to...

I've worked for several male-dominant organizations, both terms of % gender numbers and also as reflected in the management composition, primarily men filling those ranks. Methinks most people would forgive tears if it's a personal family matter that you are trying to cope with, but it's probably wise to control those tears if it's job-related, out of public eye.

Not alot of people in an organization are jerks (at least not for the employers I've worked for, despite demands on employees). It's often just 1-2 jerks. Sometimes tears makes other people (bystanders) wonder how carefully they should treat the person who blew up in tears last time over a work-related matter.

Anyway, each person is different. Often I wonder at times, also it's the employee's family upbringing and other things in life prior to the job, that shapes a person's response to certain comments/situations. I know for myself, I was raised in a family that can be blunt/frank to one another with lots of noise, arguing, etc. If I have done something wrong at work, I need to have someone tell me bluntly in the face, otherwise an overly smooth/soothing remark might just bypass "deaf'/clueless me.

[Pax]

Unfortunately, in this society we suffer from paradigm paralysis, we're expected to emulate the dominant paradigm in the workplace even though it doesn't represent us.

It's time we start changing what is considered acceptable in the workplace. We're not robots and we're not men, when we are very angry or very hurt we cry, it's not good or bad, or unprofessional, or manipulative...it's just an expression of an emotion.

[Crankin]

Well, I would not cry at work, if it was regarding a "work" situation.If someone was telling me bad news, or it was family related, I wouldn't care, but if I was in a meeting and the topic was a difficult one, but purely work, I would not cry. I cry fairly easily in other situations, but I really don't think it's professional at work. Sorry, but I think we all (both men and women) should be able to control our emotions in a work situation. It's just a job...

[Pax]

Well, I would not cry at work, if it was regarding a "work" situation.If someone was telling me bad news, or it was family related, I wouldn't care, but if I was in a meeting and the topic was a difficult one, but purely work, I would not cry. I cry fairly easily in other situations, but I really don't think it's professional at work. Sorry, but I think we all (both men and women) should be able to control our emotions in a work situation. It's just a job...

I admire your ability to control your emotions.

As far as what constitutes "professional" behavior, that is the crux of this discussion. Is any emotion allowed? If so, which ones? Is anger, joy, fear, or happiness permitted at work or is the workplace to be kept emotion free and level at all times? If some emotion is acceptable who decides what is "professional"?

[bean fidhleir]

Unfortunately, in this society we suffer from paradigm paralysis, we're expected to emulate the dominant paradigm in the workplace even though it doesn't represent us.

It's time we start changing what is considered acceptable in the workplace. We're not robots and we're not men, when we are very angry or very hurt we cry, it's not good or bad, or unprofessional, or manipulative...it's just an expression of an emotion.

Well said! I fervently agree that what's acceptable in the workplace must change. Not only aren't we men or robots, but the dominant, male-oriented ruthlessly-conquer-and-exploit model is what's got us headed for the fossil record.

But change agents are usually made to pay a high price by the defending power structure, and I don't know what to do about that. It feels hard to recommend to other women that they sacrifice their personal life goals and economic wellbeing in the service of a better world. Yet I'm not sure there's another choice.

[Geonz]

There's a difference between tears & hysteria. What's the difference between emotional gestures of enthusiasm or disapproval or... it really is a cultural thing. Can a person cry and get the job done? I think sometimes...
There's a whole scientific side of it, too. For all that some of us can't help but cry, others can control it and use it... and I would suspect that some people can't help but feel extreme distraction and discomfort in the presence of tears, and others can.
I realized when I took a couple of courses in Fine Arts (how to do computer art - I'm still utterly left-brained ) that heavens, those folks were just a whole lot more emotional. (No, I have no idea if that applies to FIne ARts in general or just those folks, but I did find myself saying "well, d'uh!") It was definitely a different culture and you had to learn to work within it. I mean, if I were crying over something in a class ... welp, if I did that regular-like I'd figure that meant I should change my major... because that wouldn't be normal for me. For some folks, though, it's just part of the creative process.

[Tuckervill]

Unfortunately, in this society we suffer from paradigm paralysis, we're expected to emulate the dominant paradigm in the workplace even though it doesn't represent us.

It's time we start changing what is considered acceptable in the workplace. We're not robots and we're not men, when we are very angry or very hurt we cry, it's not good or bad, or unprofessional, or manipulative...it's just an expression of an emotion.

+1!

I have all sons, all brothers, and mostly male cousins. I am president of the youth baseball league which consists of mostly men. I was in the Army. I have lots of experience working exclusively with men.

It is my feeling that people who respond negatively to tears do so because they find them an insurmountable obstacle. It's not anything that they can control. Men don't seem to be in touch with what their reaction should be to someone crying. Crying serves some evoluntionary/societal purpose, but we seemed to have lost what it is and how it works.

I don't understand why, but I sure agree with you, Queen. It's not wrong to cry.

Karen