Review: Saucony Kinvara Running Shoe

[KnottedYet]

My new best runner: http://www.teamestrogen.com/prodHI_10072_0.html

I got mine yesterday. Ended up with the men's version, due to my wide toes. The men's heel was tight enough that I had no issues with heel slippage, my toes were happy, and I didn't want to stop running when I tried them out.

Before the Kinvara, I was running in Chaco sandals. The Kinvara feels like a Chaco. The sole at heel is almost the same thickness as at the forefoot like a Chaco, so shinsplints are nearly non-existant. The inner strapping of the upper hugs the midfoot without crunching the forefoot, much like a Chaco.

The midsole is much softer and smooshier than a Chaco, but even as a softie it doesn't lose shape as you land, nor throw you off laterally. The heel-counter is just barely present, a wee bitty of a thing. I'm a big over-pronator, but had no problem keeping good foot posture in the Kinvara even though it is fairly soft and has no "stability" stuff built in. In fact, the softness felt really good, like running on sand.

There really isn't an outsole. Just patches of denser material here and there. I was a bit concerned that the shoe would break down quickly due to lack of an outsole, but from other reviews I've read they hold up surprisingly well. We shall see what havoc my 205 lbs can wreak upon these dainty creatures...

The sole as a whole is even and flexible. (unlike the Brooks Green Silence, which I found quite annoying with its thickened stiff area under the fifth metatarsal) You feel the contours of the ground and your foot has to adapt at every step. Much more alert activity required from the foot than in something like a Brooks Ariel or Addiction, and ever so much less tediously repetitive to run in.

Kinvaras are light. Super silly ridiculously light. When I walked out of the store with the shoe box in my hand, I could have sworn the box was empty. They are a dream to run in. Nearly silent foot falls.

I was sold when I felt like I was flying on my test run at the store. I fell wildly in love today on my first real run with them when I was able to run twice as far as usual without a SINGLE pain or squeak. And that's without breaking them in!

Give them a try, they are lovely.

FWIW: I wear a men's 8.5 in the Saucony Kinvara. I wear a women's 8 wide in Chaco. I wear a women's 10 or 10.5 in Brooks. YMMV.

[ultraviolet]

I love the detail in your reviews. Thanks for posting this! I've been eyeing these for myself, as I'll need new running shoes soon.

After ending up with all kinds of pain and injuries from motion control shoes that more than one running store put me in, I finally decided to try something (anything) different. Switching to neutral shoes was the best exercise-related decision I've ever made.

Now I just have to decide between the pink and the orange. So hard. Those are my two favorite colors. *sigh*

[nscrbug]

Another thanks for the review. I too, have been looking at the Kinvara...for over a year now, but have yet to pull the trigger on a pair. I've been fairly happy in my Nike Free Run, but just this week started to get some familiar toe pain/numbness (which is usually my signal that it's time for new shoes). So today I ordered a new pair of the Nike Free Run 2 (new version) from Running Warehouse. I'm hoping they will fit exactly like the previous incarnation...but if not, then I will try the Kinvara. I too, need a wide toe box (hammertoes) with a narrower heel. I did try on a pair of the women's Kinvara at my LRS...I tried a size 10.5 and I thought it felt a tad bit narrow in the toe box...my toes felt a little squished. I haven't tried the men's version though, so I'll have to do that. In the Nike Free Runs I wear a women's size 11, and I have lots of toe wiggling room.

Does the Kinvara have a traditional tongue? It's been a while since I last tried a pair on, and I can't remember if they did or not. That is one of the characteristics about the Nike Free that I love...no tongue to move around and irritate the top of my foot.

[OakLeaf]

Mmmmm. Tempting. I'm trying to think if these are the ones I tried on last year ... is the toe box really pointed?

[KnottedYet]

Yup, the shoe has a tongue. It's pretty much sewn down, only the last 1 1/2 inches moves. It doesn't shift at all when I run.

Oak - I'm not sure what you mean about a really pointed toe box? The toe box is quite wide across the toe-break and gradually tapers medially as you go forward. The farthest tip of the shoe would be at the 1st and 2nd toe, where most running shoes it's more toward the 3rd toe (which is generally not the longest toe on folks). Looking at it from above the toe box is asymmetrical, like a human foot. Longer on the medial side than on the lateral side. I guess that would look kind of pointy from above compared to something like an oxford (Doc Marten), but compared to another asymmetrical toe box (Birkenstock) it looks pretty normal.

I like the fit of the Kinvara toe box, no excess space in front of my toes. (I have Roman feet.) I tried the Brooks Green Silence after the Kinvara. The Green Silence has a rounded symmetrical toe box that left a lot of empty space in front of my last 4 toes and felt a bit like a flipper when I ran. I can see where someone with a dramatic Irish/Greek foot would prefer the rounder toebox of the Green Silence to accommodate the longer 1-3 toes. However, I don't get the impression that the average Irish foot would have any trouble with the Kinvara.

[nscrbug]

Ok, since I've never heard the terms used before...I have to ask what exactly is an Irish, Greek, or Roman foot? How do they all differ?

[OakLeaf]

My issue I don't even know whether to describe it as length, width, or toe length.

Even if I can get a shoe that's wide enough across the metatarsal arch and narrow enough in the heel - rare as that is - even on most of those, the outsides of my first and fifth toes rub right at the end of the nail.

So if the toe box isn't really square, if a shoe is big enough, I wind up with this enormous triangle of empty clown shoe ahead of my second through fourth toes.

I may still have to find a pair of those Chacos in Wide - although I'm very hesitant about running in the country with open toes - and they sure are heavy. Can they be re-soled with lighter soles?

[KnottedYet]

Even if I can get a shoe that's wide enough across the metatarsal arch and narrow enough in the heel - rare as that is - even on most of those, the outsides of my first and fifth toes rub right at the end of the nail.

So if the toe box isn't really square, if a shoe is big enough, I wind up with this enormous triangle of empty clown shoe ahead of my second through fourth toes.

Sounds like you've got dramatic Roman feet, like me. I'd suggest trying the Saucony Kinvara in the Men's sizes. I find it easier to run in than even my beloved Chacos.

(the Women's Kinvara rubbed my toes just like you describe)

The Kinvara did NOT give the clown-shoe effect, which I have had in just about every other running shoe I've ever tried.

(I luuuuuv my new shoes, can you tell? )

ETA: the Chaco "Yampa" sole is slightly lighter than the "Uniweep" sole. REI has sandals with each sole option. I have Z2 wides with Yampa soles that are quite nice to run in.

[KnottedYet]

Ok, since I've never heard the terms used before...I have to ask what exactly is an Irish, Greek, or Roman foot? How do they all differ?

Foot structure.
It's more than just toe lengths, but the quickest way to guess at your foot structure type is to look at your toes.

If you have a second toe that is longer than your first toe, and/or if your toes are very long - might be Irish or Greek (or "Royal") foot.

If your second toe is shorter than your first toe, and/or if your toes are very short - might be Roman foot.

There are more distinctions than that (metatarsal proportions, toe break angle, etc.) but that's the short cut definition.

[nscrbug]

Hmmm...I guess that means that I fall into the "Irish-hammertoe" category. I have long toes (when forceably straightened), but in their natural state they curl downwards.

[KnottedYet]

Hmmm...I guess that means that I fall into the "Irish-hammertoe" category. I have long toes (when forceably straightened), but in their natural state they curl downwards.

Irish feet often end up with toe deformities due to a lifetime of being forced into shoes designed on the Roman foot model.

80-90% of feet are Roman feet, so that is what shoe companies use as the model for mass produced shoes. Back when cobblers made shoes based on the need of each individual, this was less of a problem.

Nifty story of a podiatrist in England during WWII who suddenly had an influx of folks with foot problems. They'd almost all moved from one small town in Ireland to her city in England and suddenly no longer had shoes made for "their" feet (the classic English foot is Roman structure) and developed foot problems from buying mass produced shoes that weren't right for them.

The whole foot thing fascinated her, and she ended up going into paleontology where she categorized burials as Celtic vs Roman based on foot structure rather than artifacts.

[jessmarimba]

I think I have the opposite feet as you, but I appreciate the review! I'm looking at trying the Kinvara or the Mirage next. I like my New Balance MT 101s but I need just a little more cushion in the forefoot, I think. Saucony is one of the few brands that doesn't feel absolutely enormous in the toe box for me (plus the sides are so far apart at the laces that I can lace them tighter without bunching the toe box, either).

[jessmarimba]

Just wanted to update with my response.

The Mirage is absolutely absolutely absolutely not nearly as minimal as they advertise. I did not like them one bit. They are not "kinvaras for mild to moderate overpronators" or whatever they want you to think. Just normal chunky running shoes.

I bought the Kinvaras, and found out on my first run that those shoes plus my normal insoles mean I ended up with nasty blisters on my insole. Somehow, they are actually much more supportive on their own than they looked. However, put the factory insoles back in and ran hill repeats in them today and things went much better. First time I've run without a little something extra in my shoes in YEARS. They felt a little funny walking in, but very light and slightly squishy while running. Thumbs up!

(though I think they're ugly. I like plainer shoes...the highlighter green sole on these is absurd)

[tulip]

My second toe is exactly the same length as my big toe...what does that make me?

Running shoes are still on my list, but the budget just hasn't allowed it yet. Working on that.

[KnottedYet]

My second toe is exactly the same length as my big toe...what does that make me?

Running shoes are still on my list, but the budget just hasn't allowed it yet. Working on that.

Toe-length is only one characteristic (but it's the one most people notice).

What really matters are the proportions of the metatarsals and the angles of the toe-break.

I wouldn't even know where to begin describing over the internet how to figure that one out.