Hogging the road

[featuretile]

I live on a steep country road that goes up 500' in one mile. It is only 1 1/2 lanes wide with turnouts for passing cars. I choose not to ride here because it's too steep and not safe. So, for months I have watched this woman ride up and down my road several times in a row. I can see her from my window and we call her Bicycle Girl. I finally got to my mailbox about the same time she was about to turn around, and I asked her if she was in training for some ride. I thought I'd be friendly and invite her to ride some place nicer, like with our cycling club. She was very cold and acted like I was stalking her and said that she prefers this ride.

So, yesterday I was in my yellow jacket and black tights with my road bike in the back of my Subaru and she was going downhill in front of me. She completely hogged the road and would not pull over, even though all she needed to do was move a few feet and slow down at one of the turn outs (no need to even stop the bike) and let me by. I do not understand why anyone would want to ride down a steep narrow road with a car on her tail.

I found myself in the strange position of really feeling pissed off at a cyclist, and I understand cycling. I can only image what a non-cyclist would feel like, since it really bothered me . I would have let the car pass when it was safe. I think this kind of attitude contributes to motorists dislike of cyclists. That's not sharing the road. Wish she would find another training place.....

[Mr. Bloom]

First, I understand where you're coming from...out of curiosity, with a 10% grade down for one mile, how long were you following her?

Frankly, it seems like the profile of a spot where I'd be inclined to "take the lane" to avoid getting pushed to the shoulder by a car on one of those turns...

[zoom-zoom]

My dad is not fond of cyclists and has said some HORRIBLE things about cyclists as a whole, because of people like her and the thousands of others who flock to my folks' vacation area and disregard rules of the road when they (the tourists) are in such an idyllic place...an idyllic place where people still drive deadly cars. I have often had to remind my parents that they don't live in a "typical" area and that most cyclists riding while not on vacation do not have their brains turned off like the ones they encounter so often.

They regularly see people riding 3 abreast, not sharing the road, disregarding stops, riding on the wrong side of the road, etc. They see this so much that they've come to believe this is how cyclists behave everywhere. It's a shame.

[Becky]

Frankly, it seems like the profile of a spot where I'd be inclined to "take the lane" to avoid getting pushed to the shoulder by a car on one of those turns...

This occurred to me also. That said, perhaps Kenny Rogers said it best: "You got to know when to hold 'em, know when to fold 'em..."

[kermit]

I have found the same problem in a popular spot down here...girls stopped in the bike lane to text...REALLY... or the girl on the mountain bike that pushes you into traffic when you pass. I believe that ignorance is bliss, she has almost never ridden with a group and never in a good cycling area with other riders, I'm sure she doesn't know what "on your left" means. It's gonna take one guy behind her in a car that lays on his horn. She has no clue...I wish that with every bike that is sold there was some kind of "safe riding" manual to give people a clue!

[malkin]

I get ticked off at cyclists quite often!

No helmet, no lights, no observance of driving conventions---> depending on my mood, my response can range from eye rolling to cursing.

[Veronica]

Maybe she's in training for something like DMD or the Terrible Two and is doing hill repeats. It sounds like you live on a little country road with not much traffic so she may think it's the perfect place for a workout like that.

What's the speed limit on your road? It would not surprise me if descending she was doing at least the speed limit. In which case, I would not give up the lane either.

Veronica

[Biciclista]

people that want to hate cyclists use the same mentality "All cyclists in my neighborhood blow through stop signs" excuse me, I live in your neighborhood and I don't do that.
however, on a road like you described, I might have taken the lane too. the shoulder isn't very safe especially at higher speeds. How many seconds were you delayed by her hogging the road?

[Veronica]

Sometimes when I'm descending on my bike, I get held up by cars...


Veronica

[snapdragen]

Many times it's safer for a cyclist to "take the road" on a narrow windy downhill.

[XMcShiftersonX]

It's her choice if she wants to ride there or not, and she has just as much right to be on the road as anyone else. She doesn't have to be training for something to justify riding there. 500 feet in 1/2 mile sounds like a great ride and workout to me (in fact that's just the hill that leaves my neighborhood)! I never slow down or stop to let someone pass me. Why? Do cars ever do that for you on the chance you're stuck behind them? Getting as far to the right is the polite thing to do IF you feel it's safe enough, but its not always a viable option. Especially going down hills, you SHOULD WANT to take up the lane so that people don't try to pass you while you're maneuvering and then have you crash and also get hit by a car. Also, the shoulder is often where you find tons of debris and potholes. Keep in mind that your idea of a good time on the bike, is not everyone elses'.

[Grog]

On a narrow, steep hill, I will always take the lane, it's much, much safer. If I let them pass me they are likely to squeeze me off the road on their way back down or I will have to brake because I descend faster than they do, especially going through turns. The car is much less of a danger to me if it's behind me than if it's ahead of me on a road like that...

[Grog]

I was thinking about this thread this morning on my (bike) commute to work, which is on a rather hilly route. I don't normally log into Team Estrogen from work but this was bugging me enough that I wanted to get it off my chest.

Any cyclist who thinks it's a good idea to stay closer than 6-10 feet from the side of the road on a descent where the cyclist will hit speeds of more than 20 mph is at great risk. Here are a few reasons why I refuse to put myself at risk for the (imagined) convenience of others:

- I am going much faster than the driver thinks I am. I regularly hit speeds of 70kph (43 mph) and above. My max-ever speed on a long windy descent is 85 kph (50 mph). There isn't a day on the bike where I don't go faster than 45 kph (almost 30 mph) at some point.*
- At 50 kph I am traveling 14 meters per second (almost 50 feet).
- My capacity to stop is greatly reduced at high speed..
- I need to keep my options open at all time. If I am too close to the right side of the road, even for one second, I have nowhere to go in case of a problem. Always know where the emergency exits are and how to get there.
- There is very often debris on the road, and there is even more debris as one gets close to the shoulder. I need to be able to see debris ahead of time and steer accordingly, all of this at high speed.
- Deer can jump out of the woods at any time on a rural road.
- Squirrel, coyotes, racoons, and skunks can come out of the side of the road at any time in urban and rural environments.
- Children and adults who are not looking at the road also come out. If it's a quiet rural road they are not suspecting there will be a fast-descending vehicle on that road, especially one they cannot hear.
- Folks on mountain bikes can dart out of a road-side trail as well. My father-in-law hit a young guy who did not look when coming out of a trail as he was descending a long hill at high speed. That's 6 years and he still suffers from the consequences of that accident today. (The kid apparently was fine, as he left my father-in-law unconscious on the road and took off.)
- Drivers come out of driveways, sometimes backing off, and they are looking at the traveling lane, not at the shoulder.
- Drivers coming in the other direction are preparing to make left turns into my path to enter a driveway and they are looking at the traveling lane, not at the shoulder. They also underestimate my speed. I have to make a strong impression on them.
- The driver behind me might want to make a right turn in a driveway ahead. They are also underestimating my speed, are likely to pass me and then hit the brakes to make their turn, putting me in great danger.
- The driver behind me will hit the brakes when approaching the next turn, putting me at risk of rear-ending them or having to pass them on the left.
- On the other side of a blind corner there will be the proverbial truck stopped and, in the other lane, the refrigerator that fell off the back of the truck. I need to be in full control of the space and to benefit from some reaction time. (Note that I don't go at 85 kph if there are blind corners!!!)

The correct position on the road, when descending at any speed, if you imagine is somewhere in the central third of the road.

The driver of the car behind me might get a little impatient, but the chances that the driver is enough of a maniac to actually run me over from behind are much lower than the chances of any of the above happening. As for honking, they should keep both hands on the steering wheel, but if they do, it will not impact my descending strategy. My safety is in my own hands and I will definitely let them go by when I feel that it is safe to do so.


*This is also the reason why, unless going through a turn, I keep moving my legs even if I'm not actually applying force to the pedals anymore. This conveys a stronger impression to the driver that I am actually moving rather fast.

[Biciclista]

everything she said.
+++++++++++++++100000
so use a little patience. It might save a life and teach some other drivers that it can be done.

I was thinking about this thread this morning on my (bike) commute to work, which is on a rather hilly route. I don't normally log into Team Estrogen from work but this was bugging me enough that I wanted to get it off my chest.

Any cyclist who thinks it's a good idea to stay closer than 6-10 feet from the side of the road on a descent where the cyclist will hit speeds of more than 20 mph is at great risk. Here are a few reasons why I refuse to put myself at risk for the (imagined) convenience of others:

- I am going much faster than the driver thinks I am. I regularly hit speeds of 70kph (43 mph) and above. My max-ever speed on a long windy descent is 85 kph (50 mph). There isn't a day on the bike where I don't go faster than 45 kph (almost 30 mph) at some point.*
- At 50 kph I am traveling 14 meters per second (almost 50 feet).
- My capacity to stop is greatly reduced at high speed..
- I need to keep my options open at all time. If I am too close to the right side of the road, even for one second, I have nowhere to go in case of a problem. Always know where the emergency exits are and how to get there.
- There is very often debris on the road, and there is even more debris as one gets close to the shoulder. I need to be able to see debris ahead of time and steer accordingly, all of this at high speed.
- Deer can jump out of the woods at any time on a rural road.
- Squirrel, coyotes, racoons, and skunks can come out of the side of the road at any time in urban and rural environments.
- Children and adults who are not looking at the road also come out. If it's a quiet rural road they are not suspecting there will be a fast-descending vehicle on that road, especially one they cannot hear.
- Folks on mountain bikes can dart out of a road-side trail as well. My father-in-law hit a young guy who did not look when coming out of a trail as he was descending a long hill at high speed. That's 6 years and he still suffers from the consequences of that accident today. (The kid apparently was fine, as he left my father-in-law unconscious on the road and took off.)
- Drivers come out of driveways, sometimes backing off, and they are looking at the traveling lane, not at the shoulder.
- Drivers coming in the other direction are preparing to make left turns into my path to enter a driveway and they are looking at the traveling lane, not at the shoulder. They also underestimate my speed. I have to make a strong impression on them.
- The driver behind me might want to make a right turn in a driveway ahead. They are also underestimating my speed, are likely to pass me and then hit the brakes to make their turn, putting me in great danger.
- The driver behind me will hit the brakes when approaching the next turn, putting me at risk of rear-ending them or having to pass them on the left.
- On the other side of a blind corner there will be the proverbial truck stopped and, in the other lane, the refrigerator that fell off the back of the truck. I need to be in full control of the space and to benefit from some reaction time. (Note that I don't go at 85 kph if there are blind corners!!!)

The correct position on the road, when descending at any speed, if you imagine is somewhere in the central third of the road.

The driver of the car behind me might get a little impatient, but the chances that the driver is enough of a maniac to actually run me over from behind are much lower than the chances of any of the above happening. As for honking, they should keep both hands on the steering wheel, but if they do, it will not impact my descending strategy. My safety is in my own hands and I will definitely let them go by when I feel that it is safe to do so.


*This is also the reason why, unless going through a turn, I keep moving my legs even if I'm not actually applying force to the pedals anymore. This conveys a stronger impression to the driver that I am actually moving rather fast.

[Eden]

My question is pretty much the same as Veronica's ..... If the road is steep and she was descending was she doing at/near the speed limit? Did you only want to pass here because "I'm in a car and cars go faster than bikes".....

I find that descending I often go as fast or faster than cars *can*, especially on winding roads because I don't have to slow down as much to corner. I also take the lane because it is safer - see Grog's list!

In my view, your cyclist wasn't "hogging" the road - she was using it.... Sometimes it is just better to stay where you are. If someone has to wait a little bit, its not the end of the world...

I go through a section on my way to work that is a two lane road with a wide center barrier. The lane is narrow. Sometimes there is parking on the right, sometimes there is just sidewalk. There are curb bulbs (sidewalk that sticks out beyond the parking) at intersections. In the parking lane (if it is not full of cars) there are several large metal utility covers - one grated, one smooth, both rectangular and about 2'x3' - big). I'm not sure what the exact mileage is, but the whole distance I travel on the road before I turn left takes me 40 sec to a min at the most, depending on how frisky I feel and how much junk I've got on my back that morning.... I'm usually going about 17-20 mph - maybe a little slower near the end as it starts to gradually pitch up a little bit and I am preparing to turn left. The recommended speed is 25 for most of it (yellow signs) the limit is 30. I take the center of the lane. Even if there's a gap between parked cars I don't dive in there to let someone by - one its just safer to keep moving in a straight line, two - there could be something hazardous in there I can't see - like one of those slippery metal plates, three I could end up with not enough time to get back out or stop and crash into a parked car or curb if there's more than a single car behind me. I'm sure some people think I'm "hogging the road" - but guess what - I think my safety is more important that the several seconds they have to wait.... (and remember its not even the 40 secs that they are waiting, because I am moving....)

The cyclist on your road probably has a similarly complex thought out process to why she rides where she does and she doesn't do it to p*ss you off - she does it because it how she feels safest. Remember - unless they are limited access interstate highways... roads aren't just for cars - just because *you* wouldn't feel comfortable riding on a particular road, doesn't mean it's off limits to everyone and no one ever has the obligation to get out of your way if it means compromising their own safety...