OMG USADA Lance etc

[jessmarimba]

How the heck can they strip him of his Tour titles? They don't run the Tour, or even pro cycling. That's up to the UCI, which is based in Europe.

I think because UCI agreed to follow the USADA doping standards, they *have* to strip them if they want to be considered in compliance. So I guess the decision really lies with UCI in the long run, but they've been sort of backed into a corner.

[jessmarimba]

I'm sure there are a million articles and op-ed pieces on this whole fiasco, but I thought this was a well-written commentary:

http://www.pelotonmagazine.com/Wilco...Armstrong-Case

[ny biker]

Does someone want to give the short version of what the heck is wrong with his former teammates that they would all be willing to testify against him?

So they all cheated, and now turn on him. Let's ignore the lack of character doping implies. This lack of loyalty is disturbing. What a bunch of characterless jerks.

So far it's all rumor, but I think they were offered a deal -- we know you doped too, tell us what he did and we'll let you off easy.

If they have any info from the federal investigation, then I think the various teammates could have been jailed for perjury if they didn't tell the truth. However I don't know if USADA has any of that information, since I think I read everything from those types of investigations are sealed once they are closed.

[smilingcat]

I'm starting to think USADA is out to get UCI and TdF. It's not American ya know... The whole thing stinks of witch hunt.

Why not the NFL, NHL, NBA, All american baseball AL and NL...

Yes women's cycling, we do have cheaters. gnat says claritin-D, and I used to know someone who used banned stuff. Just go to your local "muscle" gym and get to know the pumped up guys.

No matter how much drug I take, I'll never outperform any reasonably fit cat-4 racers. Just too old, out of shape and just too spooked to take chances for a crash.

slightly on a different note and on a lighter side of things http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQhHyHkCeBo

[Anyabeth]

I am not a particular Lance fan but their case seems to be largely that they feel he must have cheated (and I think he probably did) but didn't manage to catch him so that is PROOF that there was a conspiracy. It is ugly and I don't think helps sport at all. I think it interesting that the USADA goes after cycling and baseball but leaves football alone (despite some high profile positive tests) and the NBA doesn't even test.

[zoom-zoom]

I'm starting to think USADA is out to get UCI and TdF. It's not American ya know... The whole thing stinks of witch hunt.

Why not the NFL, NHL, NBA, All american baseball AL and NL...

You know, I have never been able to get at all interested in ANY pro sports...not TdF, none of it. Because there is just an ugly culture of money and drugs and illegal and/or immoral behavior being brushed under the rug. I can't invest my time in that.

But, yeah, we know there are EPO users in other high-profile American sports--why is the scrutiny not equal?

[pll]

As many in this forum may have realized, I am not a Lance Armstrong fan. However, the USADA should (1) respect jurisdiction (they cannot strip titles not awarded by them); (2) prove their case before issuing or "leaking" any statement or information to the media. The way these cases are (man)handled is astounding. It hurts the sport and it certainly does not help the cause of getting rid of dopers.

Even then, I have fun watching the grand tours and classic races.

[Dogmama]

How the heck can they strip him of his Tour titles? They don't run the Tour, or even pro cycling. That's up to the UCI, which is based in Europe.

Good point!!!

I really do think he made the right decision given his work with Livestrong. I am annoyed that he is making himself out to be a victim. When you put yourself out there, you're going to get criticized. He's made millions with endorsements. The American people are amazingly forgiving when it comes to certain populations (look at Michael Vick, the dog fighter, NFL pro).

[Dogmama]

the NBA doesn't even test.

Yes, they do test. In fact,their new contract reads that they can be tested 2X during the off season for performance enhancing drugs. They cannot be tested in the arena before a game, however. Probably don't want to hold up the television audience. Can your hear Marv Alberts, "Hold on fans, Steve Nash is peeing in a cup..."

Signed - rabid NBA fan

[MichelleOH]

I'm not aware of how these drugs work exactly, but how does testing in the off season tell them anything about the actual season?

[ny biker]

I'm not aware of how these drugs work exactly, but how does testing in the off season tell them anything about the actual season?

Well there's really no off season. They take a little time off after their last race of the year, then they start training for the next year.

And they don't just test for performance-enhancing drugs. Ulrich was suspended for testing positive after being at a dance club while he was recovering from an injury. And IIRC Boonen has tested positive for cocaine.

[lovelygamer]

I don't feel the USADA has the legal standings to do what they have done with Lance, considering the TDF takes place outside of the USA. I also think that his teammates are a**holes for taking a deal, which they obviously did. I'll also never agree that they USADA should have been able to take his wins without one formal conviction. The whole thing is a total shame and disaster.

[pll]

The following, from a note in Cycling News, is interesting:

French attorney Thibault de Montbrial, who defended the paper in a suit filed by Armstrong against LA Confidential authors David Walsh and Pierre Ballester, thinks the cumulative pressure of authors such as these and the SCA Promotions lawsuit that followed contributed to the downfall of Armstrong.

He also believes riders are still showing suspicious signs.

"Work together with Antoine Vayer [LeMond columnist], the performance specialist, helped show the implausibility of the power generated in watts on the climbs. Moreover, it is interesting to note that the UCI has banned the publication of such real-time statistics in 2012. And we can understand why when you see that the power production by [Bradley] Wiggins and [Chris] Froome (first and second of the Tour) is comparable to the turbulent times of the late 1990s and early 2000s."

I was wondering why SRM discontinued its display of power figures this year. During last year's tour, if you were watching live, you could go to an SRM web site and see the cadence, watts, heart rate and speed of several racers in the stage, as well as their location on a map. This year, SRM announced it on its web site, but when the TdF started, there were no numbers. Sadly, the UCI is another broken institution.

[pll]

I also think that his teammates are a**holes for taking a deal, which they obviously did.

This I do not understand. Are you advocating for mafia style "omerta"? When Simeoni broke it in 2004/05, he was bullied by Armstrong. Read the collection of articles here. For me, part of why I cannot stand Armstrong is the bullying of others, which is fit for teens in a high school. I hope any evidence USADA has, testimony and all, is brought to bear in an appropriate venue, be it a court or an arbitration body.

[Anyabeth]

Yes, they do test. In fact,their new contract reads that they can be tested 2X during the off season for performance enhancing drugs. They cannot be tested in the arena before a game, however. Probably don't want to hold up the television audience. Can your hear Marv Alberts, "Hold on fans, Steve Nash is peeing in a cup..."

Signed - rabid NBA fan

That is interesting, I am sorry, I remember a larger discussion of PEDs and people talked about the NBA not testing and I took it as true.