"draining fluid from your legs"

[alpinerabbit]

I did some research on pubmed regarding what "base building" does to you. There's much more going on, like import proteins rising in muscle cells / mitochondria,and the liver producing more apolipoprotein (carrier protein for fatty acids) etc, etc.

I am confused about lactate being used as fuel.
I was taught lactic acid is not very efficient as fuel in the muscle during exercise. The way I read the abstract (quoted below) is that some is used as fuel, but also lactate is only removed within the cells during recovery, when they have plenty of oxygen - but this does not produce a lot of energy compared to glycolysis (aerobic metabolism produces 19x more energy than anaerobic per mole of glucose).
There is a cycle in the liver to convert lactate back to glucose (which, however, requires energy).

Brooks GA. The lactate shuttle during exercise and recovery. Med Sci Sports Exerc. 1986 Jun;18(3):360-8. Review
Most (75%+) of the lactate formed during sustained, steady-rate exercise is removed by oxidation during exercise, and only a minor fraction (approximately 20%) is converted to glucose. Significant lactate extraction occurs during net lactate release from active skeletal muscle; the total lactate extraction approximates half the net chemical release. Of the lactate which appears in blood, most of this will be removed and combusted by oxidative (muscle) fibers in the active bed and the heart. The "shuttling" of oxidizable substrate in the form of lactate from areas of high glycogenolytic rate to areas of high cellular respiration through the interstitium and vasculature appears to represent an important means by which substrate is distributed, metabolic "waste" is removed, and the functions of various tissues are coordinated during exercise. During recovery from sustained exhausting exercise, most of the lactate accumulated during exercise will continue to be removed by direct oxidation. However, as the muscle respiratory rate declines in recovery, lactate becomes the preferred substrate for hepatic gluconeogenesis. Practically all of the newly formed liver glucose will be released into the circulation to serve as a precursor for cardiac and skeletal muscle glycogen repletion. Liver glycogen depots will not be restored, and muscle glycogen will not be completely restored until refeeding. This is because the diversion of lactate carbon to oxidation during exercise and recovery represents an irreversible loss of gluconeogenic precursor and because the processes of protein proteolysis and gluconeogenesis from amino acids are insufficient to achieve complete glycogen restitution after exhausting exercise

[Zen]

Can you repeat the question?

I'm gonna have to read that one about five more times, at least.
Was 1986 the latest data you could find? That's kind of old.

[alpinerabbit]

Can you repeat the question?

I'm gonna have to read that one about five more times, at least.
Was 1986 the latest data you could find? That's kind of old.

Nope, the 1986 one is just the paper that was cited in Cycling news.
pubmed.org can give you more.
i also checked the biochemical pathways and wikipedia for the ATP yields.

[BeeLady]

While ya'll are sorting all this out, could the lactic acid increasing mitochondria (mitochondrial mass) jive with some of the information I seem to have understood that the aging process is linked to mitochondria dying?

And the increase in the mitochondria mass would be one reason why exercise and training seems to delay some of the effects associated with aging?

(I only use rolling pins for baking and elevate my legs after cycling as I lay on my back to stretch out my hams)

[malkin]

I'm just going to imagine that it's beer in there and pop a tap in to see if I can get it out.

[j.nurse63]

Lactic acid buildup is a myth.

The length of the workout is pretty irrelevant to the issue of edema. It really depends on how hard you were working. The more strength involved (sprint intervals, lots of climbing, big gear tempo rides, etc.), the more likely there will be some feeling of leg swelling and fluid retention, at least in my experience, but it can also happen whenever my legs get really fatigued, when the muscles are tight and I'm not diligent about massage, or when I'm overtraining.

Self-massage (no rolling pin necessary) helps a lot, especially with cooling muscle rubs. Even better, get a professional massage to really get at the harder to reach hams and glutes.

I have been concerned for the last week on th amount of edema/tightness I have been feeling in my legs. Last Sunday I rode 64 miles...my furthest ride with hills. It was a workout for me. This week I wasn't sore...but swollen. I sometimes feel tightness/swelling in my calves but it doesn't generally run to the ankles. So should I think this might be a normal response to a hard work out?
Jean

[OakLeaf]

How's your electrolyte balance? Was it warm during your ride, did you sweat a lot and did you replace electrolytes? (Excluding serious conditions which I hope your doctors have ruled out!) that's the first thing I think of when I get edema.

[katluvr]

This discussion thread intrigues me....in the 5 years of cycling I don't think I have ever had leg swelling. I have heard not to weight right after a hard workout that your muscles retain fluid--but I have never felt tightness related to fluid or noted edema.
So am I not working out hard enough? Or is this a very individual thing?
Just intrigued that this thread had a new post.

[TxDoc]

*wonders if she could stand even seconds in the river before crawling home*

Aaaah! Years ago I tried to swim in a river in Switzerland, the Aare, and I thought I was going to freeze!!!
Only lasted 10 minutes before jumping out!

[j.nurse63]

How's your electrolyte balance? Was it warm during your ride, did you sweat a lot and did you replace electrolytes? (Excluding serious conditions which I hope your doctors have ruled out!) that's the first thing I think of when I get edema.

yes, it was hot that day. I will admit that I may have not replaced electrolytes as I should have. Something I should pay more attention to! Thanks Oak