OT - Politics, Religion... the taboos

[Trek420]

I've never been a seperatist, never wanted to be one. I think I understand the reason some are but it would never work for me.

Some of my best friends are men, straight men at that. I like men, a whole lot! I just don't sleep with them is all .... any more. Not a gold star lesbian but that was so long ago it doesn't count. Anyway....

In an urban area and especially here it would be possible to simply dissapear in the Gay community but for one it's just not practical. The best bike mechanic is a man, my favorite restaraunts, book stores ... all run by any number of communities. I'd miss so much, be so limited. That's why I like it here is the diversity.

My friends and even family are all over the map. I'm lucky to be close to my family but also count the family I have chosen, my friends. What they all have in common is personality. I feel lucky to have found a group of friends who have inteligence, share my quirky sense of humor, love of good food, progressive politics, art, music. How could I dissregard them because this one's black, that one's Wiccan, that one's a guy.....they are all my friends.

Also I feel that Ghetto-ization (is that a word?) never works, it issolates and polarizes a community. We see this over and over. Difficult to explain this but I consider myself "twice blessed" as both Gay and a Jew. All of us have our feet in many worlds. I couldn't choose just one culture.

[bcipam]

Irulan:

Thank you so much for sharing some of your life. Uncertain if it is difficult for you to discuss it and if so thanks all the more for sharing.

I have often wondered if my mother is not gay. My parents are in their 80's so you can imagine that sort of thing was not discussed or even considered. My parents have been married over 56 years and appear to be happy or at least comfortable in their lifestyle but my mother has never liked men (my poor brother was pretty ridiculed growing up and that has scarred him for life). Even with her grandchildren (3 boys, 2 girls) she is pretty offstandish with the boys and absolutely adores the girls. My poor Dad, he just has more patience than anyone I know. Since I was a tom boy, more like my Dad than her, I wasn't particularly like as well.

So of course, my household was pretty dysfunctional as well for many other reasons. I'm not certain anyone has a "Ozzie and Harriet" upbringing. I guess the what you had gives you the strength and insight to see pass labels and societal taboos to see the real person. I hope my upbringing (which was difficult, I was physically abused by my mother who was not a happy person) has given me some strength as well.

I recently saw a program on Discovery Health about transgender sex operations. The folks they covered were men (andthere was also a show on women to men), who had married and had children and then decided they can no longer live the lie and needed to become women. The show didn't sugar coat what this does to the families. Where does this leave the wife? How about the kids? No real good answers and I guess now that society is more accepting of sexual differences, less people will try and hid their sexual differences, first live the"lie" and then destroy their families.

[RoadRaven]

Spazz... you left out pagans...

And I agree so much with you... people are poeple, regardless of their gender, their colour, race or ethnicity, or their religion or spirituality

People have faults and people have wonderful traits.

Its up to each of us to find the magic in every one else.

Separist attiutudes... whether they come from radical feminists, rabid animal rights people, fundementalist Christians, politicians, or our next door neighbours are unhealthy.

I'm not living in an ideal bubble-world where we can all hold hands and love each other unconditionally ... but I am saying why can't more people celebrate difference when that difference hurts no other creatures... why can't we learn to celebrate difference instead of fearing it?

[Trek420]

bcipam posts

"I have often wondered if my mother is not gay.....My parents have been married over 56 years .... but my mother has never liked men (my poor brother was pretty ridiculed growing up and that has scarred him for life). Even with her grandchildren (3 boys, 2 girls) she is pretty offstandish with the boys and absolutely adores the girls. My poor Dad, he just has more patience than anyone I know. Since I was a tom boy, more like my Dad than her, I wasn't particularly like as well."

Sounds like that was tough for all of you. Sorry to hear that.

Being a lesbian at least for me (speaking as I do for all gay people <vbg>) has never been about not likeing guys. It's about loveing women, a whole lot.

Do you know anything about your Mom's childhood? Could she have been abused by a man? Something happened that has turned her off men but that does not necessarily mean she's gay. Sorry that she put some of that on you.

[spazzdog]

bcipam, check out the thread on cycling and gender. Our own 'chelle was most gracious to sign on to TE (and stick around) after we opened a topic based on a story about her that appeared in a magazine.

We're delighted she showed up and more delighted that she has stayed on as part of our "TE family".

Here's the link to the thread: http://forums.teamestrogen.com/showt...ht=Transgender