My Motorist Exchange...

[PamNY]

Oakleaf, do you mind telling me what region you're talking about? I've told several friends (all living in US now but wide variety of nationalities, cultures and backgrounds) about this discussion and no one's ever heard of such objections. I do know women who assume "ma'am" has to do with age, but that's it.

Pam

[witeowl]

Where I live, "sir" and "ma'am" are terms that people use EXCLUSIVELY when they're trying to be RUDE.

May I ask where that is?

[lph]

Only just now read this thread. I think a point that seems to have been missed is that it makes no difference if you're using a term of respect or not, if you aren't showing respect. Like the teenage girl back a whole lot of posts. Then it becomes a faux show of respect, just to get out of trouble, or even to increase your show of disrespect, sarcastically.

And if you are being respectful and polite otherwise, it's not necessary to use a term of respect. The tone of voice and your manner is enough. eta: not quite true, though, I do appreciate it and have taught my son to use "please" and thank you" liberally, which strictly speaking are just niceties. But said sincerely they do reduce friction.

In Norway we have no terms like this in usage, and I can confirm that they are not necessary to get someone's attention. If I were called ma'am or miss or whatever in the States in a polite tone of voice and setting I wouldn't get offended though, just figure that it was meant well. But I would hesitate to use them myself, because I don't what the labels "mean", and it feels strange to me to use labels on strangers in the first place.

Someone calling me miss here would be over 80

[OakLeaf]

I'm in northern Appalachia. But Crankin is in Cambridge, MA, which could hardly be more different culturally.

Except, I suppose, that both regions have a pretty ingrained class consciousness, from opposite ends of the spectrum; maybe that's the common thread.

Anyway, I'm out too.

[Mr. Bloom]

Interesting footnote:

According to wikipedia:

"After addressing her as "Your Majesty," it is proper to address The Queen of the United Kingdom as "Ma'am" for the remainder of the conversation..."

[bmccasland]

Not sure where "sir" came from, in english vernicular, but "ma'am" is short for "madam", which comes from the french "madame", which directly translates to "my lady". SO in a way it is a title of respect or patronization depending on your point of view. "Sir' is the title given to Knights, but not all men were members of the chivalry.

I think the use of titles, especially in the south, is a holdover from the age of gentility and the fascination with the renaissance. It became ingrained with the idea of what someone with "good manners" "should use". And there it is today.

As many have pointed out, often however, it's not what you say, it's how you say it. With a smile or a sneer? I found moving back to the south, I fell in to using "sir" and "ma'am" more frequently as it is expected, where I didn't use them so much living out west (in Arizona and California).

Having been raised southern, and in the military, I have the biased point of view that the use of titles does show respect, and position in a pecking order. Children are not on equal basis with adults, therefore should use titles when addressing adults. And in professional, or formal settings, not all adults are equal either, so we use titles there as well.

And sometimes, when Officer Friendly is asking you why you blew the stop sign? A deep breath, and "yes sir/ma'am, "no sir/ma'am" are the only correct answers. I didn't see the sign, sir. Bunch of leaves in front of the sign, sir. Yes, there's a warning sign, I'll do better next time, sir. Deep breath.

Kenyonchris we love you and the crap you and your compatriots that walk the thin blue line put up with!

[channlluv]

I agree with Beth on this one. It's a sign of respect in my book, too, especially when used with sincerity, and having been raised with good manners, it would never occur to me to use those terms in any other way.

As a 44-year-old, I'm often called ma'am, even out here in Southern California, and while reading this thread and reviewing my own use of those terms here, I'm pretty sure I only use them with people older than myself. People who are my peers in age just get a "Pardon me," or "Excuse me." I'd never examined that before reading this thread.

I've also caught myself calling friends of my daughter Darlin' and Sweetheart. Also terms of endearment as these are kids - male and female - who I genuinely like a lot. I've known most of them since they were all in Kindergarten together and they're about to go into 6th grade. Many of them call me Roxy, which I have to admit I found disconcerting at first, but I asked my daughter what she calls their mothers, and she replied with their first names.

Maybe it's an enlightened Southern California thing and I'm still getting used to it, but there you go. I don't think I've ever heard my daughter say "Yes, ma'am" to anyone now that I'm thinking about it. She's very good on the pleases and thank yous, but man, I've got some hometraining to do.

...Okay, so I just went and asked her if she ever uses those terms and she said no. I asked her why not and she sort of chuckled and said, "'Cause it would make me sound like the most polite person in the world." Read that nerdy, I guess. At lease she recognizes the implication of the use of those terms.

Yep, some hometraining is in order, especially before we head to Florida next week to visit my family there.

Roxy

[salsabike]

Only just now read this thread. I think a point that seems to have been missed is that it makes no difference if you're using a term of respect or not, if you aren't showing respect. Like the teenage girl back a whole lot of posts. Then it becomes a faux show of respect, just to get out of trouble, or even to increase your show of disrespect, sarcastically.

And if you are being respectful and polite otherwise, it's not necessary to use a term of respect. The tone of voice and your manner is enough. eta: not quite true, though, I do appreciate it and have taught my son to use "please" and thank you" liberally, which strictly speaking are just niceties. But said sincerely they do reduce friction.

In Norway we have no terms like this in usage, and I can confirm that they are not necessary to get someone's attention. If I were called ma'am or miss or whatever in the States in a polite tone of voice and setting I wouldn't get offended though, just figure that it was meant well. But I would hesitate to use them myself, because I don't what the labels "mean", and it feels strange to me to use labels on strangers in the first place.

Someone calling me miss here would be over 80

Nice post, lph.