Church?

[Fredwina]

As I read these responses, it makes me sad to think that people's freedom of thought has been, or at least it is perceived as so, repressed in the church. I think if you read the words of Jesus, you will find that that's not what he was about.

True. I always wonder how people Reconcile the "Meek and Mild" Jesus with one who overturns table at the temple.

[Bluetree]

***sigh***

[mimitabby]

It frightens me to think how much religion is incorporated into conservative U.S. politics.

And it amazes me how values/ideals such as tolerance, eliminating poverty and protecting the earth have suddenly become bad things to many evangelicals (and Fox News, too).

I am not a religious person, but I always thought that if God/Christ/Allah/Buddha et al, registered with anyone it would be the Green Party.

Yes, not only that, he believed that you should pay your taxes.

[mtbdarby]

It frightens me to think how much religion is incorporated into conservative U.S. politics.

And it amazes me how values/ideals such as tolerance, eliminating poverty and protecting the earth have suddenly become bad things to many evangelicals (and Fox News, too).

I am not a religious person, but I always thought that if God/Christ/Allah/Buddha et al, registered with anyone it would be the Green Party.

Our constitution was based off of Christian beliefs (not denomonation specific), so it really isn't, or in my opinion, shouldn't be a surprise that religion is incorporated into our politics. What frightens me is that we're now trying to eliminate it. There's a saying I remember from my college days: "Stand for something or you'll fall for anything". I think there's a whole generation of people who don't believe in anything and are focusing more on material and selfish matters struggling to find their place/purpose in this world. Call it God/Christ/Allah/Buddha/Spiritualism, etc. but I do feel that's missing from our culture these days. Just my rambling thoughts, hope I don't offend.

Pam, I would LOVE to go to Rick Warren's church! I think he's a great speaker. Have you ever gone there?

[ridethewind]

Our constitution was based off of Christian beliefs (not denomonation specific), so it really isn't, or in my opinion, shouldn't be a surprise that religion is incorporated into our politics. What frightens me is that we're now trying to eliminate it.

There is a reason the founding fathers placed the Establishment Clause in the Constitution. They had seen first hand the difficulties caused by too much of an entanglement between government and religion. Religion and government have their proper spheres. Too much entanglement is bad, as is the complete disregard of religion. The balance struck by the founding fathers has worked well for over 200 years. I don't think it should be tampered with.

____________
Jean

[slinkedog]

I think that there is no way politics can be devoid of faith unless people of faith no longer participate in the political system. We *all* bring our morals and beliefs to the political table, and to think that, because my morals are bound up in my faith (as I believe is the case for many) that somehow makes me unfit to be involved in the political system, to me, is pretty unfair.

Editing to also say that I was reading an article that states that people of faith are the most generous when it comes to helping those in need and giving to charities. I disagree with Fox News (if that's what they say, I don't watch it) that eliminating poverty and protecting the earth are bad things. We, as Christians, are charged with making this place better. Jesus refers to the Church as the Body of Christ, i.e., we are his hands and feet and are supposed to be about the business of doing the things that he cares about. Taking care of each other *should* be high on the list! In my church, it is a priority. I realize that the church, as an institution, has not always done well in this area. I hope that we all remember that churches are filled with fallible people, who, like all of us, are still on our individual journeys to being better people. I hope that people of faith do a better job of loving people as we go forward.

[Bad JuJu]

Just a reminder that it IS possible to stand for something, even if you don't subscribe to a religion or belief in a deity. There is such a thing as morality that is not based on faith, but on something like the golden rule--do unto others as you would have them do unto you. We don't have to be threatened by divine retribution to see the rightness in living according to that rule. Just my two cents.

[Trek420]

slinkedog "I think if you read the words of Jesus, you will find that that's not what he was about."

The Jewish gal chimes in, I'm just a little Jewish kid from Petaluma, not raised observant or anything (although my Grandfather was a Cantor) but anywho from what I've read/heard/learned this Jesus guy was a pretty radical dude. You know, judge not lest you be...being judged as a Christian by how you treat others...a lot of really cool stuff. But lots of people don't read those parts.

[crazycanuck]

I'm getting rather annoyed with this thread..I know you ladies mean well but this is not a place for relgion nor a place to promote christian beliefs. I don't come to a biking board to read about religion and praying .

I'm trying to keep my mouth shut as there are so many things i could say but it would get me kicked off the board...

c

[bcipam]

Pam, I would LOVE to go to Rick Warren's church! I think he's a great speaker. Have you ever gone there?

It's funny you say that... Have actually been to Saddleback a number of times - it' one of the local mega churches and actually competes with my Church (Coast Hills). Warren is a dynamic speaker but there is something about him I well just don't like. I liked my old pastor who was quiet, and sweet, but very passionate about his faith. Saddleback is quite the powerhouse and many of my friends attend services there
* * *

One thing I am concerned about that folks equate conservative religion with not being tolerant, or compassionate etc. My church gives a large portion of its collected money to help the poor. It established "Hope's House" a retreat for battered and abuse women. It regularly makes trips to Mexico to build houses and treat the needy with medical care. I give as much as I can to a number of charities and do support special governmental programs for those in need. These beliefs do not just belong to liberals. In addition, what is tolerance? I hear all too often conservatives are not tolerate but liberals only "tolerant" viewpoints that support their own. Both sides have their own agenda. Tolerance BTW does not mean condoning or accepting someone or something it means to allow without prohibiting or opposing. In other words, I believe abortion is wrong however, I tolerate one's belief to make that choice.

I don't think Fox News speaks for the conservative right. Most of those guys (especially Bill O'Reilly and Rush Limbaugh) are hacks. Talk about trolls!

Bottom line the evangelical church is not filled with only right wing conservatives, there are people there from all walks of life, both right and left (I'm in the middle but have been registered Democrat most of my life). Worshipping God is far above any petty( or not so petty) earthly issue. Again, I think churches by and large have gotten a bad rap. There are all sorts, ones to suit any needs, thoughts and desire as long as in your heart you are there to worship God. I agree church and state should be separate; religion and politics are definitely two separate issues.

[bcipam]

I'm getting rather annoyed with this thread..I know you ladies mean well but this is not a place for relgion nor a place to promote christian beliefs. I don't come to a biking board to read about religion and praying .

I'm trying to keep my mouth shut as there are so many things i could say but it would get me kicked off the board...

c

Crazy - this discussion has been cordial and informative and I'm glad I have a place to exchange these ideas with reasonable women. Sorry it offends. I would recommended you no longer visit the tread but I invite you to stay because so many wonderful ideas have been exchanged.

And Trek - you so get it!!! Jesus was a radical dude. He led by example but did not judge. If only we could all be that cool. I have a long way to go... :-(

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

I'm getting rather annoyed with this thread..I know you ladies mean well but this is not a place for relgion nor a place to promote christian beliefs. I don't come to a biking board to read about religion and praying .

I'm trying to keep my mouth shut as there are so many things i could say but it would get me kicked off the board...

c

After some reflection, I have to agree with this. Firstly, why is this thread under "Cycling Related" Topics?? And Second (and more importantly) if we read the forum guidelines plainly printed under Open Topic(Non-cycling related) here is what it says:
"Remember, the focus of these forums is women's cycling and fitness. Other forums exist elsewhere on the Internet for involved discussions of religion, politics, etc."
This thread seems to be starting to evolve into a religion/politics/WhatWouldJesusDo kind of debate. They always do, people always get upset, and that's why politics and religion just don't blend well in online forums and are usually on the list of stuff not to start threads about.

[slinkedog]

You guys are right. Sorry!

[Grog]

This thread is under 'Cycling topics' I believe because Eden (is that right?) started a poll about how church-going habits and cycling habits coexisted.

I would agree with moving the thread under non-cycling open topics if a moderator wants to do that. However I don't think crazycanuck would be kicked out for what she has to say. A number of us, including myself, have expressed disagreement, skepticism, or other non-churchly feelings, done so respectfully, and the discussion has only grown better... I am in fact quite impressed at the level of maturity I have read here.

I wouldn't promote TE as a spirituality forum, but considering that many have expressed that riding their bikes in nature is a spiritual experience... well I can tolerate a thread on such a topic once in a while.

[bcipam]

OK last post for me - but they are many other threads and discussions on this forum that are totally non-bike related from favorite snacks, to movies, to personal issues etc. I think as long as the discussion is cordial and interesting it should be allowed but once someone starts to complaint, it's time to move on.

This forum to me has always been my safe haven. Time and again it gets testy (lord I remember the can of worms I opened by mentioning Dr. Laura) and we must change the subject but I never ever want to feel like I can't be open and be able to discuss things that matter to me with you all. Although I am a cyclist and cycling bought me to this site, I am also a member of this community and consider it "family" of a sort and enjoy discussions with everyone even if the topic gets "off topic".

PS: What's more spiritual than riding a bike?