stopping technique

[Terry]

Missliz is absolutly right about learning to clip-in a 3 o'clock- 9 o'clock clip in the other foot...and yes, mountain bikers have a lot to loose when fallin on cactus, rocks trees, ect. MT riders learn to "think fast" with the feet/feet don't fail me now. I second practicing clipping out simultaneously with both feet. You really do need the both of them on an emergancy...

Hey, do you all realize we have TWO seperate threads going on this same topic? And if you go back about 6 months, the discussion threads are avaible on this very same subject.

To clip in or not clip in, that is the question,
Tis' nobler to ride clipped and know one's clips than not?

(I know, pathetic attempt and wit...I should go to work, huh...)
Terry

[MightyMitre]

On the toe-clips front, if you look at track racing in the velodrome nearly all riders use cleats to clip in, and then toe-clips and staps on top of those just to make 100% sure they can't pull their feet out accidently.

Have you seen the size of the thighs on some of those guys ( and gals!)?

[missliz]

You're right Grasshopper, I wasn't really clear about that- The trainer is good to experiment and get a feel for the whole thing, but once you're outside, you're outside. You can put the beast into a really low gear and take to the lawn, even on a road bike. Much safer to fall on. But really, you should only fall twice or so- If you keep going down something bigger is up and sombody needs to take a look.
One thing I've noticed, both in myself and talking to other women (and observing them) is that there's a tendency to use a gentle movement on the release. And it usually doesn't work. A lot of pedals want a more forceful push, and a trainer could be a good place to learn just what is needed. A little more muscle behind the twist of the ankle will usually do it, but it's hard to gauge it at first. I rode clipless for years, but when I went to ATACs in a last ditch effort to save my knees, I could NOT get out of them- till I just slammed my foot sideways out of the pedal. They just took a really aggressive push.
So maybe some trainer, some lawn? Repeated biffs to the pavement aren't a good thing. I worry one of us will get injured.

missliz

[missliz]

People keep posting while I'm writing!

So MM, you asked for this- Those track guys wren't just big in the leg, they're like seven feet tall at the international level, literally. And totally psycho. Adam has this great story about a freind of his who raced track in the seventies, when American National teams were a joke in cycling. He's at the World Champs, goes out in a heat against this big monster Italian and has nothing to lose, so our boy hauls off and socks him in the face. Apparently this was perfectly acceptable behavior in track. So the Italian reaches over and picks up Captain America by the neck of the jersey and THROWS him into the stands! Bike and all! LOL!
So for the next week our boy has his fondest wish come true- he dominates European sports coverage, just not the way he'd wanted. The film of him being tossed and landing in a crumpled heap was the most played and replayed thing on TV. American cyclings greatest moment of glory 'till the LA games gave us a little legitimacy.
I suspect track has calmed down a bit, and we do better at it, but yeah, those guys are HUGE!

missliz

[MightyMitre]

That's crazy - some of those track riders must have to get themselves worked right up and aggressive, especially for the short sprint races.

On a less aggressive note - I caught a few minutes of the World Track champs last week and was watching the girlies doing short sprints, and in one of the finals there was a real fight for first - very exciting.

At the end of a race the riders often shake hands ect while they're still going round, but these 2 girls not only shook hands, they also gave each other a kiss on the lips, while still spinning round at the end. I just couldn't believe the skill & bike handling these track riders must have - the commentator, a guy who rides the track himself was also impressed and said just how good these riders are.

It was also really cool - before and during the race they're bitter enemies, but once it's all over there's so much respect for each other and comradship

[Dogmama]

Originally posted by missliz
but when I went to ATACs in a last ditch effort to save my knees, I could NOT get out of them- till I just slammed my foot sideways out of the pedal. They just took a really aggressive push.
missliz

ATACS? What are those?

[missliz]

ATACs are fancy shmancy mt bike pedals, made by Time and in your choice of carbon fiber, aluminum, or cro- moly. And colors! They have 15 degrees of float, as opposed to the 5 to 7 you get with the average mt bike pedal. Speedplays can release a little too easily for dirt work, and ATAC have the big float some of us like. Really high quality trick pedal, designed to shed mud and take a beating. I like mine, but they are not a beginners pedal.
They can be really tricky to release, the best technique I've found is to snap the foot sideways while still spinning- which is good dirt form anyway.
Time makes awesome road pedals too, and if anybody gets too fed up with LOOK it could be something to check out. The systems are not at all compatible, you'll need adapter plates for non Time road shoes, but some very serious racers use 'em and love 'em. My LBS guys rave about them, though I've never used them or even had a good look at them.
You can also always put mt pedals on the road bike for touring. There's a lot of that done, and you can keep the road shoes if you like the super stiffness. a lot of them are easier to deal with than road pedals.

missliz

[missliz]

I talked to Adam, my wrench/ LBS owner/ coach/ guru, he said not to waste time on TIME road pedals. He's seen a lot of the problems with with women getting out of clipless pedals discussed here, especially LOOK, and guess what it is?
I'm just dying this is so interesting, send fond wishes Adams way girls, he was really concerned that women 2000 miles away are having trouble. The Bicycle Nation is a wondrous thing.
So what happens is that womens feet are shorter, and we don't get the leverage with a short foot as we twist it to pop out that a guy with a bigger longer foot does. I have an 8 1/2 foot, and never had much trouble, but apparently at around size seven or below the ankle is so close to the center of a LOOK cleat that getting enough leverage is a real issue, a genuine mechanical problem. They were designed for giant guy feet and this could explain some of the trouble y'all are having. Loosening the tension can help, but A reccomends Speedplays or Mt bike pedals, the cleats are so much shorter that the whole leverage issue is lessened or negated. You can put Mt cleats on your road shoes. Klein has started speccing some pretty serious race bikes with Mt pedals, so it's really cutting edge fashion ladies . And if it's easier to deal with, it's more fun to ride, right?
There's also a Shimano road pedal that's smaller than a LOOK and Adam said some small footed women liked.
Cool, huh?

I also got a very technical education on the design problems of very small bikes for women, Adam is outfitting a lot of very petite tri girls and has seen the whole deal up close a lot lately. My head is spinning from it!

missliz

Adams shop address is at <www.adamsbicycleworld.com>. Tell him thank you if this helps anybody. he'll be SO tickled. This is one of those unusual shops that love women athletes.

[missliz]

Oh, the other tip from Adam- if you're using LOOKs and red ARC cleats w/ lots of float, they can be adjusted to help. If they're placed wrong, even just a scooch, you have to turn your foot to an almost 75 degree angle to pop out, and that's just not doable. The easy test is to push your heel in towards the bike- if you come out easily you need a cleat adjustment. Cheap 'n easy.

missliz

[MightyMitre]

OMG - that's a total revelation MissLiz!!

That would totally explain why I found LOOKS a complete nightmare. My feet are pretty small and I just couldn't muster enough strenght to flick me foot out of the cleet - especially after a long ride. Infact, I had to use so much force I was actually worried about injurying my knee!

Many thanks to Adam for explaining this. It just makes you realise that despite all the advances in kit, smaller frame sizes and smaller handle bars , so much of it is still geared towards the male body.

[hibiscus09]

Thanks missliz -- you'd think the LBS could figure this one out after selling so many clipless systems! The guys that sold me my Looks couldn't stop going on about wonderful Look was (and it may be for the right size person). When I took mine back, one of the older mechanic guys told me not to worry, I wasn't the first person to say they couldn't get them unclipped. I'm only 5'3.5" and wear a 6.5 to 7 shoe.

I just wonder how many smaller women have been deterred from cycling or a clipless system due to falling out of those things -- I'm a little touched in the head so I just kept getting back on -- but I'm sure there are plenty who say no way!

Anyway, tell Adam many thanks! I'll send him an email.

[mustangshelly]

I am also new to road biking. Got my new Klein bike about 3 weeks ago, complete with those nasty little pedals and cleats. I sat in my yard and practiced, practiced, practiced before heading out on the road. Took about 30 minutes of working myself up into clipping in BOTH feet while on the road, but finally did it. Two days later, I jumped on and never looked back. I am still nervous riding in traffic, but thankfully, where I live, I don't have to deal with much traffic if I don't want to. I have Speedplay pedals, which I think are very easy to get in and out of, especially for a newbie.