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  1. #31
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Southern Indiana
    Posts
    176

    hills

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    Struggling up a hill vs sitting on a couch doing nothing.
    Walking up a hill vs smoking a cigarette.
    Being slower than the others vs swilling beer.
    Being a "newbie" vs not even owning a bike.
    Riding only 10 miles vs being unable to walk up a flight of stairs.
    Coming in last in a race vs being addicted to junk food.

    No matter how often I fail to measure up to my ideal bikie image, I will always be proud of myself because I'm out there doing my best to stay healthy and active.

    We're out there because we believe in the power and freedom our bikes give us. We should measure ourselves only against our abilities and not others.

    Bike on!

    Barb

  2. #32
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    On my bike
    Posts
    2,505

    Show me the science!

    C-Cain - Lance lifted weights when he wasn't racing. Big weights. Since I started doing serious weight training, my climbing has improved remarkably. I was always pleased with my ability to climb, but now I can blast up hills.

    I found the following articles that support weight training and cycling performance. This is from the Journal of Applied Physiology:

    http://jap.physiology.org/cgi/conten...ract/65/5/2285

    The conclusion is:"These data do not demonstrate any negative performance effects of adding heavy-resistance training to ongoing endurance-training regimens. They indicate that certain types of endurance performance, particularly those requiring fast-twitch fiber recruitment, can be improved by strength-training supplementation."

    This was in pub med:

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...&dopt=Citation

    The conclusion is: "These findings indicate that strength training improves cycle endurance performance independently of changes in VO2max. This improved performance appears to be related to increases in LT and leg strength." (LT= lactate threshold). So, apparently they found that strength training does increase lactate threshold.

    I think you'll find that competitive cyclists do strength training in the off season. The theory of specificity is important, but augmenting training with other modalities is the rule rather than the exception. Case in point: Lance increased his ability to cycle in thin mountain air by sleeping in a special tent that reduced the amount of oxygen he received. The theory of specificity would require him to endlessly blast up mountain hills.

    I can sit in the drops longer because I do bench presses & tricep exercises. I can climb longer because I do squats which strength my glutes and lower back. When my muscles don't quit, I can work on my lung capacity. And I become a better cyclist, and a LOT better at climbing hills. And, I wasn't a bad hill climber to start with (she says modestly!)
    To train a dog, you must be more interesting than dirt.

    Trek Project One
    Trek FX 7.4 Hybrid

  3. #33
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    Lakewood, Co
    Posts
    1,061
    I'm piping in here mainly because I know the type of hills you are talking about. I used to live in Cincinnati and have done many miles in the Southwestern Ohio, Kentucky and hilly parts of Indiana.

    Many of the hills you will encounter are "rollers" which means they are short downhills with short uphills. It's tempting to coast down those hills but don't. Keep your pace by spinning down them. This will give you enough momentum to make it up the other side. Like Eclectic said, when you start to lose momentum start shifting your big chainring. You may spin a little and think you are in the wrong ring but your speed will catch up. Then start to shift the rear cassette.

    Hill climbing takes practice and timing the shifting. If you have a heart rate monitor use it and learn what your hill climbing heart rate should be and use it to pace yourself.

    Yes, I agree that hill climbing is strength and endurance. I recently did Bicycle Ride Across Tennessee and Cycle North Carolina. Neither ride was particularly hard hill wise but I'm recovering from ACL surgery this past Feb and didn't get to build my endurance for the hills. I made it through the 80+ days of Brat, (with a meltdown at 60 miles everyday) but on the first day of CNC the hills were much harder and I began walking more and more of them. After 44 miles I gave up and sagged in. I was devastated! The only other time I sagged in on a tour was this year on Candisc and that was due to 20+ mph winds.

    From that experience I learned that I didn't have the endurance and power I had before my injury. It was a very hard pill to swallow because I'm a fairly good climber and came to terms with hills many years ago. But I felt like I'm a beginner again and having to start all over. My only consolation was that I was 7+ months from a pretty tough knee surgery and I still need time to build my endurance.

    Don't get discouraged with hills, they will become easier as you get more experienced. Just remember that they are more techinque than anything. I look back at the hills I walked many years ago on the Horsey Hundred in Georgetown Ky and wonder why I had to walk them.

    You have lots of opportunities to do some great organized hilly rides in Oh, Ky. and Ind. The cycle clubs in Cincy, Louisville, Lexington have some great rides. The Dayton, Oh cycle clubs have some good rides too with fewer hills.

    A used to be good hill climber.

  4. #34
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    467
    I guess you wish to continue this discussion, so be it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dogmama View Post
    C-Cain - Lance lifted weights when he wasn't racing. Big weights. Since I started doing serious weight training, my climbing has improved remarkably.
    Lance Armstrong also trained 20+ hours a week, lived and breathed cycling - are you going to do that because he did? I should add, Carmichael and company are coaches, not exercise physiologists...

    Quote Originally Posted by Dogmama View Post
    I found the following articles that support weight training and cycling performance. This is from the Journal of Applied Physiology:

    http://jap.physiology.org/cgi/conten...ract/65/5/2285

    The conclusion is:"These data do not demonstrate any negative performance effects of adding heavy-resistance training to ongoing endurance-training regimens. They indicate that certain types of endurance performance, particularly those requiring fast-twitch fiber recruitment, can be improved by strength-training supplementation
    Do you realize that fast-twitch fiber recruitment is minimal at sub-threshold intensity? And unless you are blasting up a 20 second hill, you are not going to be climbing above threshold for very long.

    I was also clear in my statements that weight training is beneficial for track racing because in that discipline, fast-twitch utilization is much higher.



    Quote Originally Posted by Dogmama View Post

    This was in pub med:

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...&dopt=Citation

    The conclusion is: "These findings indicate that strength training improves cycle endurance performance independently of changes in VO2max. This improved performance appears to be related to increases in LT and leg strength." (LT= lactate threshold). So, apparently they found that strength training does increase lactate threshold.
    Yes that was in pub med but you either forgot or chose not to mention, this part:

    "....18 healthy untrained males between 25 and 34 yr of age were randomly assigned to either strength training (N = 10) or control (N = 8)..."

    So if you are posting on a cycling forum and talking about riding hills, lots of miles, etc - I have to believe you do not qualify as 'untrained' and definitely not sedentary. Moreover, for such a person, virtually any activity will improve their fitness over doing nothing.


    Quote Originally Posted by Dogmama View Post
    I think you'll find that competitive cyclists do strength training in the off season. The theory of specificity is important, but augmenting training with other modalities is the rule rather than the exception. Case in point: Lance increased his ability to cycle in thin mountain air by sleeping in a special tent that reduced the amount of oxygen he received. The theory of specificity would require him to endlessly blast up mountain hills.
    I think you are comparing apples to oranges. Altitude tents are used to boost hematocrit - EPO does the same thing, so would living in Leadville - riding up or down hills, in of itself, would not accomplish a boost in hematocrit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dogmama View Post
    I can sit in the drops longer because I do bench presses & tricep exercises. I can climb longer because I do squats which strength my glutes and lower back. When my muscles don't quit, I can work on my lung capacity. And I become a better cyclist, and a LOT better at climbing hills. And, I wasn't a bad hill climber to start with (she says modestly!)
    You believe in weight training and I am not suggesting you or anyone else stop. It will not make you a better endurance cyclist though and you are more likely to pick up an injury in the gym than on your bike. Weights will not improve your lactate threshold or Vo2max - and those are precisely what are needed to improve sustained power output.

    For all the weights you do, the amount of force you need for endurance cycling is no more than climbing a set of stairs. In addition, when you do any kind of sprint you generate far, far higher forces than you ever would while doing any kind of sustained climbing - you are already strong enough to climb. The limiting factors are not strength but insufficient capillarisation density and mitochondria as well as insufficient oxygen delivery and stroke volume.

    Finally, here's some science for you:

    Åstrand, P-.O., and Rodahl, K. (1986). Textbook of work physiology: Physiological bases of exercise. Singapore: McGraw-Hill Book Company.

    Bassett, D. R., Kyle, C. R., Passfield, L., Broker, J. P., and Burke, E. R. (1999). Comparing cycling world hour records, 1967-1996: modelling with empirical data. Medicine and Science in Sports and Exercise. 31 (11): 1165 - 1676.

    Bishop, D., Jenkins, D. G., MacKinnon, L. T., McEniery, M., & Carey, M. F. (1999). The effects of strength training on endurance performance and muscle characteristics. Medicine and Science in Sports and Exercise. 31: 886-891

    Coyle, E. F., Feltner, M. E., Kautz, S. A., Hamilton, M. T., Mountain, S. J., Baylor, A. M., Abraham, L. D., and Petrek, G. W. (1991). Physiological and biomechanical factors associated with elite endurance cycling performance. Medicine and Science in Sports and Exercise. 23 (1): 93 - 107.

    Fagan, C. D., & Doyle-Baker, P. K. (2000). The effects of maximum strength and power training combined with plyometrics on athletic performance. Medicine and Science in Sports and Exercise. 32 (5). Supplement abstract 659.

    Harris, G. R., Stone, M. H., O'Bryant, H. S., Proulx, C. M., & Johnson, R. L. (2000). Short-term performance effects of high power, high force, or combined weight-training methods. Journal of Strength and Conditioning Research. 14: 14 - 20.

    Hawley, J. A., and Noakes, T. D. (1992). Peak power predicts maximal oxygen uptake and performance time in trained cyclists. European Journal of Applied Physiology and Occupational Physiology. 65 (1): 79 - 83.

    Jones, A. M., and Carter, H. (2000). The effect of endurance training on parameters of aerobic fitness. Sports Medicine. 29 (6): 373 - 386.

    Luecke, T., Wendeln, H., Campos, G. R., Hagerman, F. C., Hikida, R. S., & Staron, R. S. (1998). The effects of three different resistance training programs on cardiorespiratory function. Medicine and Science in Sports and Exercise. 30 (5). Supplement abstract 1125.

    McArdle, W. D., Katch, F. I., and Katch, V. L. (1991). Exercise Physiology: Energy, Nutrition and Human Performance. Malvern (USA): Lea and Febiger.

    Passfield, L., and Doust, J. H. (2000). Changes in cycling efficiency and performance after endurance exercise. Medicine and Science in Sports and Exercise. 32 (11): 1935 - 1941.

    Rich, C., & Cafarelli, E. (2000). Submaximal motor unit firing rates after 8 wk of isometric resistance training. Medicine and Science in Sports and Exercise. 32: 190 - 196.

  5. #35
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    On my bike
    Posts
    2,505
    C-Cain, perhaps I did not make my post clear. I never meant to say that weight training can replace cycling, just that it is an excellent adjunct to cycling. Elite cyclists weight train in the off season, so apparently their coaches agree.

    As for the other points, PM me if you want to continue this conversation.
    Last edited by Dogmama; 11-01-2006 at 02:32 AM.
    To train a dog, you must be more interesting than dirt.

    Trek Project One
    Trek FX 7.4 Hybrid

  6. #36
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Richardson,Texas
    Posts
    44
    bacarver...YOU SAID IT ALL!! My DH is a much stronger rider than I am. He constantly pushes me to go faster, climb better and finish quicker. I have explained to him many times than I did not take up cycling to be competitive but to enjoy it and reap the benefits of a healthier lifestyle that come from biking.

    As far as hills go, when starting a climb, I look just in front of me, not up ahead. I find that if I look ahead I dwell on how much further it is until I reach the top. If I look just in front of me (while relying on my memories of childbirth....breathe, breathe, push, push ) I find the climbs are easier and seem to go quicker, even if I'm only going 5 mph....lol! I'm not sure why that is, I just know that this is what works for me. On occasion I have had to get off the bike and walk too, but I don't let it bother me. I look at it this way, walking or riding I'm still exercising.
    Amy

 

 

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