DI2 Depression.

[Jolt]

This is the first I have heard about DI2...sounds like a great example of an answer to a question nobody asked! What is the point of electronic shifting? At least e-assist on a bike can enable somebody to ride who otherwise might not be able to, and that is a good thing. As for expensive new technology that does nothing but complicate what should be simple, phooey.

[ridebikeme]

CAn definietly understand where you are coming from Oakleaf. Years ago, I was riding on sewups and did have a spare with me. Although what I didn't take into account was that it was fall and very cool out. What that means is that I didn't weigh enough to really push on the bike/wheels and get the glue so that it was soft, so I could change my flat. Friction generally allows the glue to become quite soft, but on that cold morning, well that didn't happen... and here was the mechanic walking back to the shop. That was the last time that I ever rode sew ups, perhaps now the glue is a bit better... but I'd rather know that I can get myself home... because now I do live in very rural area.

[pll]

I also find electronic shifting like a little "invasion" of sorts, like I would lose something if I get it. However, I can see it can be helpful if you have hand issues. For example, shifting from the small ring to the big ring I always had difficulty (much improved after I splurged on some exotic Japanese cables, though). Electronic shifting might make that easier for me. Also because of my weak grip, I am keeping an eye on hydraulic brakes for a future bike.

Have you gals taken a look at how DI2 works? It's neat to see both derailleurs adjust at the same time. No more cross-chaining.

<Before you throw tomatoes my way, keep in mind that all of this comes from someone who drives a car with a manual transmission, without automatic locks or windows. And I don't have a smart phone, either.>

[OakLeaf]

I also find electronic shifting like a little "invasion" of sorts, like I would lose something if I get it.

Really, that's exactly how I felt about indexed shifting at first. Not that it stopped me from installing the little washer click-side up when you still had the option of "fretless..."

[Owlie]

I also find electronic shifting like a little "invasion" of sorts, like I would lose something if I get it. However, I can see it can be helpful if you have hand issues. For example, shifting from the small ring to the big ring I always had difficulty (much improved after I splurged on some exotic Japanese cables, though). Electronic shifting might make that easier for me. Also because of my weak grip, I am keeping an eye on hydraulic brakes for a future bike.

Have you gals taken a look at how DI2 works? It's neat to see both derailleurs adjust at the same time. No more cross-chaining.

<Before you throw tomatoes my way, keep in mind that all of this comes from someone who drives a car with a manual transmission, without automatic locks or windows. And I don't have a smart phone, either.>

I totally agree that if you have hand issues (arthritis, etc), electronic shifting is definitely a plus. I think there's a difference between accommodating so that you can ride comfortably and buying it because of purported performance improvement (and because it's a cool new toy). But then, you could say that about nearly anything.

[Skippyak]

I used to only ever drive stick shifts, it is the same thing really, who drives a stick unless you have a performance car anymore? I love auto cars. I get hives when I have to drive my DHs stick shift and I drove stick for longer than I have driven auto. I am waiting for the auto version in bike shifting.

[pll]

I used to only ever drive stick shifts, it is the same thing really, who drives a stick unless you have a performance car anymore? I love auto cars. I get hives when I have to drive my DHs stick shift and I drove stick for longer than I have driven auto. I am waiting for the auto version in bike shifting.

Just in case, mine is not a performance car. I simply like a manual transmission, it's fun to drive. The same car with an automatic transmission is heavier and less responsive.

[OakLeaf]

But I adore the CVT in my Prius...

[Wahine]

My SO has a TREK e-assist bike. It only assists when you pedal it. He is 83 years old and could not possible go riding without the help. We participated in a 25 mile tour fundraiser last week. Even with the e-assist, he had to stop quite a few times to rest. But he was riding.

This is exactly what I meant when I said that I didn't have any problem with e-assist bikes when they help people get out that wouldn't otherwise. But your SO wouldn't be allowed to compete in a race with his e-assist bike against other "normal" bikes. It's OK to do what ever the hell you want to do to your bike but if you put a motor on it, no matter how small (IMHO) it is no longer in the same category as a bicycle without a motor of any kind.

This thread is making me think a lot about why I dislike Di2 so much. Introspection is usually a good thing. Beyond my love for simplicity, here's my thought. I've always cheered for the underdog. I've always believed in a level playing field and felt that anyone could win if they put in the effort. Di2 is allowed to compete in the same field as a regular bike but not everyone can afford it. So in a sense, it's an unfair advantage for those that have the finances to purchase it.

This whole episode was brought on for me when a friend purchased a Di2 bike for cyclocross. First off, I think that's crazy. I know how effed up my bike is at the end of cross season when I have to replace cables, housing, derailleurs and drive train. I can't imagine what the mud and yuck is going to do to a Di2 system and they are not cheap to replace. My friend's arguement is that she has Raynaud's syndrome. The cold and the wet affect her hands badly and result in her not being able to shift as well. That's actually a pretty good reason to get Di2. But does it make it fair in competition?

I feel like Di2 is being pushed upon us by Shimano to sell more stuff. I think they bought off the powers that be to allow it at the pro level because what the pros ride sells. I think the industry is extrememly messed up and Di2 is just part of all that. I'm also p!ssed off that the UCI is only allowing UCI certified frames to compete in cyclocross at an international level. But that's a whole nuther rant.

[thekarens]

I guess I don't see the problem. Ultimately the legs determine how fast you are and if someone doesn't like Di2 they shouldn't get it. No one is forced to. Yes, the pros use it, which makes it popular, but that's true of a lot of things in cycling.

[Catrin]

+100 on what Wahine said. It really isn't the same thing as a traditional bicycle, and if someone wants one then that is fine - but it can't and shouldn't be compared with a full person-powered bicycle. I think they are great to help those get out who may not be otherwise able to ride. BTW, I also love a manual transmission - but that isn't related

[Crankin]

I kind of agree about the E bikes. Good for people who wouldn't otherwise be out there, and maybe parents lugging kids and groceries up big hills. One day as DH was commuting to work last spring, some guy dressed in street clothes passed him going up a hill. DH sprinted to catch him and the guy told him it was an e bike. Not fair, at all. In this case, it didn't matter, but still. The guy did not have any disabilities, either (he told DH this). Not sure about the DI2. I'll never get them, for sure. At one time, I could have seen DH wanting them, but not now. It does not seem fair, as Wahine says, to allow them in races, where not everyone has this technology. But, I am not sure how much easier it makes the shifting and how that translates to seconds shaved off of race time. I know how important this is, from my son's brief racing career, but again, a lot of people can't afford it.

[pll]

I don't buy the 'it's not fair, not everyone has the technology' argument on DI2. There is LOTS that people don't have (and cannot afford) and is allowed in races on the same footing: lighter bikes, nice carbon wheels, amazing TT bikes, properly fit bikes, components that are higher grade than others. Some even race with powermeters and heart rate monitors, aero skin suits, aero helmets. I won't go on. I don't see a fundamental problem with electronic shifting in this dimension -- the playing field isn't level already. Electronic shifting does not propel the bike and, at the end, a strong rider in a clunker can drop the fanciest equipment ridden by a bad rider.

[nuliajuk]

...Electronic shifting does not propel the bike and, at the end, a strong rider in a clunker can drop the fanciest equipment ridden by a bad rider.

Yup. At the Pan Am games in Winnipeg in 1999, a Cuban rider on an old steel Colnago track bike won the men's kilo on the track. The second place rider was on a state of the art carbon fibre wind-tunnel tested wonder-bike. The rumour was that it had cost his association almost $20000 to develop.

[pll]

At the same time, it is sad when $ buys better results for riders within similar skill levels. I know there was a discussion about not allowing TT bikes in the Nature Valley Grand Prix time trial, but, overall, it was good for smaller teams that cannot afford to travel with at least two bikes per rider (and some teams do not have more than one bike per rider). That's an attempt to level the playing field.