I must be built funny.

[Owlie]

But looking at your existing bike's geometry is a good place to start to determine what does and doesn't work for you. You mentioned feeling too stretched out on it, but have you ever worked with a fitter to tweak its set up? Even if you're determined to get a new bike, it's far easier to make informed decisions if you work first with what you already own as a frame of reference.

I've been meaning to. I have about half of it (service costs, anyway) in birthday/Christmas money. The other half...(well, I probably spent it stocking up on yarn to feed my other hobby...)
There's a few things that I know need to be done (cleat adjustment, stem swap, saddle), and one thing I can think of that might need to be done (swap out for bars with shallower drops).

I think you're on to something with the smaller frame size, provided there's enough "travel" in the seatpost to make up for it. Maybe I'll take a little trip over to the shop this week or once I'm officially back in Cincy. I think they have a Ruby in a 54, so I can compare.

[OakLeaf]

I think you're on to something with the smaller frame size, provided there's enough "travel" in the seatpost to make up for it.

Seatpost is almost never an issue. Handlebar height can be with a smaller frame, though - that's why I suggested a fork.

[Becky]

Seatpost is almost never an issue. Handlebar height can be with a smaller frame, though - that's why I suggested a fork.

Oak is onto something here. Keep an eye on the head tube length of the frames that you're considering. If (like me) you need a lot of seat post showing to get the right combination of saddle height and reach, a slightly taller head tube make a big difference in comfort.

[indysteel]

The seatpost itself is usually not an issue--as you can typically swap it out for one with more set back, but STA can be an issue, especially on smaller frames, which often have steeper STAs.

[Owlie]

Seatpost is almost never an issue. Handlebar height can be with a smaller frame, though - that's why I suggested a fork.

Oak, can you explain what you meant by an uncut fork?

[OakLeaf]

A new fork comes with a really long steerer tube. When you buy a complete bike, the tube has already been cut to a height that will work for most riders on that size frame. To be able to set your handlebars higher without a super steep stem (that could adversely affect handling), you'd need a longer steerer tube, thus a new fork, and a lot of spacers.

[Owlie]

I was wasting time at the LBS yesterday evening, looking at road bikes. I was talking with one of the employees about what I didn't like about my bike, and he suggested a closer look at the Specialized bikes (Cannondale apparently has the same problem as Giant--they think that shaving a centimeter or less off the top tube of each size makes it WSD...). The floor models were all 48cm or 51, but he found me a built-up 54cm Dolce. The reach is still a little bit long but easily in the "new stem" range.

I took it out for a test ride.

Oh dear.

While there aren't any appreciable hills near the LBS, my trip up the little incline felt so much easier. It felt faster. And my arms didn't ache!
I'm thinking a 54cm Ruby might be a nice graduation present after I finish this master's degree...

The bike shop employee also mentioned that he'd recently come back from the BG fit classes from Specialized. They want him to do a few practice fittings. He knows I'm in the poor-student boat, so if I'm willing to be a guinea pig, he's okay with trying to work something out at a reduced price to put band-aids on my giant. I love my LBS when they do things right.

[Kathi]

[QUOTE=Owlie;579234]I was wasting time at the LBS yesterday evening, looking at road bikes. I was talking with one of the employees about what I didn't like about my bike, and he suggested a closer look at the Specialized bikes (Cannondale apparently has the same problem as Giant--they think that shaving a centimeter or less off the top tube of each size makes it WSD...). The floor models were all 48cm or 51, but he found me a built-up 54cm Dolce. The reach is still a little bit long but easily in the "new stem" range.

I took it out for a test ride.

Oh dear.

While there aren't any appreciable hills near the LBS, my trip up the little incline felt so much easier. It felt faster. And my arms didn't ache!
I'm thinking a 54cm Ruby might be a nice graduation present after I finish this master's degree...

QUOTE]

I agree with Ultraviolet, you may need a slacker seat tube angle. My niece is picking up her new bike today. She had a bike fit before buying. She was leaning toward the Specialized Dolce, but, after the bike fit the Dolce's seat tube angle would have been too steep for her. Instead, she bought an Orbea.

BTW, you have one of the best bike fitter's in the country in Cincinnati. She's a Serotta Fit Institute trainer and really understands women's issues. Her name is Kathy Krumme and she's at Oakley Cycles in Oakley. I too loved my bike shop in Cincy when they did things right but Kathy straightened out their mistakes for me. BTW, I ended up spending more money than I would have if I had seen her in the first place.

[Owlie]

I agree with Ultraviolet, you may need a slacker seat tube angle. My niece is picking up her new bike today. She had a bike fit before buying. She was leaning toward the Specialized Dolce, but, after the bike fit the Dolce's seat tube angle would have been too steep for her. Instead, she bought an Orbea.

BTW, you have one of the best bike fitter's in the country in Cincinnati. She's a Serotta Fit Institute trainer and really understands women's issues. Her name is Kathy Krumme and she's at Oakley Cycles in Oakley. I too loved my bike shop in Cincy when they did things right but Kathy straightened out their mistakes for me. BTW, I ended up spending more money than I would have if I had seen her in the first place.

Here's the question, though: Most places don't offer a pre-purchase fitting, especially if you're not in cycling hot spots or population centers. How on earth would you find out what works for you (besides the "hard" way) what geometry does and doesn't work for you?

54cm Spec seems to work for me (with a stem change) as far as I can tell. I haven't given a lot of others proper test rides (no one seems to keep any 54 cm WSD bikes in stock) I'm in no position to buy, nor will I be for a long time. Yes, I'll be testing other bikes (especially because Specialized seems to be very expensive), but I think it's on my short list.

[Artista]

Here's the question, though: Most places don't offer a pre-purchase fitting, especially if you're not in cycling hot spots or population centers. How on earth would you find out what works for you (besides the "hard" way) what geometry does and doesn't work for you?

How about paying for a high quality fit on a "fit bike" first. The "fit bike" allows the fitter to find the perfect size & geometry for you without any existing frame restrictions. You could then use those measurements to determine which bikes fall within your size & geometry range to test ride. Once you decide which bike to buy, the LBS can use the fit info to initially set it up. Chances are your fitter would offer a few "tweak sessions" at no additional charge to make sure your new bike is perfectly adjusted for you.

[Sky King]

Hey all, What I am not seeing in this thread is what type of riding you plan on doing. Be careful with LBS bike fitters, If they focus on people who race they tend to want to fit you very aggressively - often with your handlebars set below your saddle. If your intention is to not be a part of the Weekend Championships that may make your rides very painful. When the bike hermit owned a retail shop he spent hours working with riders who had been "fitted" poorly and were just miserable when riding. I speak from personal experience as I too, was set up by a "race fitter" on my former road bike incorrectly, neck pain, hand pain, dead arms - you name it, I had it. Hopefully you do some research, Peter White is good, Rivendell website is helpful, Sheldon Brown, Lovely Bicycle and our website are all helpful. Don't be afraid to question, and don't be afraid to tweak, all bike fits are the beginning, not the end Can't wait to read about the bike you choose

[Biciclista]

Sky King, i think it depends. I go into a shop (i'm 59) and I tell them that i don't want to be on my hands, they're not going to put my saddle in an extreme race position!

I don't pretend to be a racer (not saying you do) i tell them how i like to ride and what my issues are. I've been fitted to 3 different bikes now.

[OakLeaf]

I had the opposite experience. I had a fit done by a race shop, and they didn't give me very thorough attention because I don't have a race bike and don't ride super-aggressively. They knew what I wanted, and they were willing to set me up for it, but they didn't have much respect for it.

[Kathi]

Sky King, this was true when I started riding in the 90's but not true anymore. Bike fit used to be based on what the racers preferred. All my bikes then were set up so I was stretched out and low. No wonder I struggled for years to get a good fitting bike. I was amazed with the differences in the process in the last 5 yrs since my fitting for my custom frame.

My niece is a rank beginner, except for a poor fitting mt bike she bought just out of college because she liked the color. She had a full Serotta fit on the Serotta size cycle. It took 2.5 hrs. They went through everything, including what she plans to use the bike for. On the size cycle the fitter put her in a neutral position, not too high or low, and adjusted angles until she felt very comfortable. He was able to match the frame geometry to the results of the fitting. She didn't even test ride the bike (it was raining). The shop sells Specialized, which she had previously considered, but the Orbea geometry was a better match. The shop didn't have that model in stock but they ordered it for her, she just got it Sat. but so far she is raving about how much she loves it.

Most shops will reduce the cost of the bike fit if you buy from them. My shops guideline over a certain price free and under that price 50% off.

Owlie, Bio-Wheels in Maderia, Cyclesport in Loveland, Jim's in Deer Park and (I think) Campus Cycle's in Clifton all have a fit process similiar to Serotta's. Jim's have been around for year's and have fitted many riders in Cincinnati. I bought my 2nd mt bike from Bio-Wheels when they were in Clifton and have lots of experience with Campus. They are all good shops but my best fit, (refit) experience was with Kathy at Oakley.

You can make all kinds of changes in stems, seat tubes, etc. but if the frame geometry is not right for you the bike just will always be "almost" but "not quite right".

My bike shop saved my niece from an $800-$1,000 mistake. She did not know enough about frame geometry to chose one that gave her the best ride. She's starting off with a good fitting bike that will keep her happy for a long time.