Best/worst gluten and dairy substitutes?

[Owlie]

No direct personal experience, but my vegan roommate has discovered:
She hasn't found a cheese substitute she likes. She also really likes the So Delicious coconut milk ice cream, but it can be hard to find around here.

[lph]

pardon me for hijacking the thread somewhat, but I've been thinking about this recently and wanted to ask:

how would you know that you are gluten intolerant or gluten sensitive, and are there health benefits to eating less gluten (and dairy for that matter) if you're not gluten intolerant?

I ask because I'm generally interested in healthy eating and try to keep an open mind to trying new stuff, my dh is dairy intolerant and I've grown increasingly so myself because of low exposure, and I just recently met several people at work who said that they could eat gluten but preferred not to because they "felt better without".

[Owlie]

pardon me for hijacking the thread somewhat, but I've been thinking about this recently and wanted to ask:

how would you know that you are gluten intolerant or gluten sensitive, and are there health benefits to eating less gluten (and dairy for that matter) if you're not gluten intolerant?

I ask because I'm generally interested in healthy eating and try to keep an open mind to trying new stuff, my dh is dairy intolerant and I've grown increasingly so myself because of low exposure, and I just recently met several people at work who said that they could eat gluten but preferred not to because they "felt better without".

Thanks for asking this, as I've been wanting to know myself.

[OakLeaf]

Try a challenge diet.

The tough part is that I think you have to eliminate ALL common food allergens, not just one, because you may be sensitive to more than one, and just a decrease in the allergic load might not noticeably decrease your symptoms. And if you've never tried to live without wheat, corn, rye, oats, soy, dairy, eggs, yeasts or molds for four days (let alone long term) ... it's not as easy as it may sound. Make sure you have a good reference, which will help with recipes as well as identifying foods (e.g., any processed fruit product, and certain fresh fruits, is likely to contain yeasts or molds; corn products can be found just about everywhere).

I'm honestly not sure that gluten is even the protein that sets off people who are allergic to wheat but who are not celiac. Or why it should matter ...

Anyway, start by keeping a food and symptom diary for a week. Everything you eat, when you eat it, every symptom you have (fatigue, edema, palpitations, itching, asthma, hives, grogginess, poor sleep, digestive issues ...) with the time of onset and the time it goes away, if any.

Then eliminate the potential triggers for four days and see if you feel any better (keeping up with your symptom diary so you can compare it to what you had before). If so, then reintroduce the foods one at a time. If you get a "positive" on anything but the last food you try, you'll have to do it over again to test for the remaining foods (but on a repeat test, you don't have to eliminate foods that you reintroduced without a reaction).

[shootingstar]

There was a point in my life, my body couldn't handle much milk, but strangely before I grew up as a child drinking several glasses of milk per day. I think all of us benefitted as growing children on milk. My parents did want us to drink milk even though they seldom drank it except my mother when she was pregnant.

Probably from low exposure, I can handle milk up to a certain point. I put myself back onto milk slowly.

This is my dairy intake and I think it's healthy for me ..for naturally occurring sources of calcium and other nutrients. I do not take supplements at this time yet.

Skim milk- 2 litres every 3-4 days. I take in my tea, coffee and oatmeal. I rarely drink a whole glass of milk. I know for me to have 2 large lattes is not good: diarahea

Butter- we only have butter in fridge 1-2 times per yr. Otherwise my butter intake is at restaurants on rollls, with butter sauces if small amounts. Again my body seems to only like abit. My body does not respond well to an overtly buttery sauce, etc.

Cheese- a few thin slices of goat cheese or other types of cheeses on a day. But that happens only several times per month or less. I do eat soy cheese from time to time.

Seeing really cheesy, greasy dishes in restaurants is not a turn-on for me. Cheese to me, is meant to garnish/melting abit for flavour in restaurant dishes. We rarely cook with cheese. Only make cheese based sandwiches with basil, tomato, etc. Or feta on salads. So a real cheesy pizza is less attractive to me vs. lighter with other multiple toppings.

Yogurt- have it only several times per month. Tend to prefer low-fat if available. My partner is the yogurt inhaler. Or he makes salad dressings with yogurt or puts into soups as a garnish..I will have all this gladly.

Cottage cheese- only several times per yr. I guess we tend to forget about it. Sour cream tends to be only several times per yr. also.

I haven't cut out dairy completely because if I have it in the amounts that I've listed above, it works for me and I think for me, it has naturally occurring nutrients which are good for my body and I don't worry about weight gain, etc.

[badger]

I had a slice of pizza and some Annie's mac & cheese last night. Oh. My. G*d. I was so uncomfortable last night, even with taking digestive enzyme beforehand.

I can't stomach milk, literally and figuratively. It grosses me out to think I'm drinking breast milk from another animal.

A friend of mine has rheumatoid arthritis and she's cut out dairy from her diet. She reports that her flare ups are fewer and less painful now. I know I could do better without dairy, but sometimes it's just not the same eating soy ice cream.

[shootingstar]

I didn't know about overdosing on lattes for me..until I was on a 5 hr. bus ride. I learned my lesson.

I can imagine the problem for you badger for that mac 'n cheese...which actually I haven't had any mac 'n cheese ...um..for last 10 yrs.?? Kraft doesn't turn me on unless I'm really desperate in the wilderness or making it from scratch sounds like too much work (for me).

Each person's body is different, that's for sure!

[Possegal]

I just recently met several people at work who said that they could eat gluten but preferred not to because they "felt better without".

I saw a segment on one of the news shows talking about this and the nutritionist said that eating gluten free because you want to eat healthier, made no sense. She talked about how it is the latest trendy eating fad but that unless you had problems with it, there was no reason to eliminate it.

Wish I could remember what show, because I'd look for a link. And I haven't researched it at all myself, so maybe she was all full of it but thought I would toss it out there since I did fairly recently hear this discussed.

[shootingstar]

Unless my body truly is adverse physiologically and gets worse, I will always have gluten in my diet.

It's just a question of what type, how it's prepared and amounts per gluten food type, that people should think about if they can eat gluten but want to feel healthier.

I disagree cutting out gluten completely unless for the reasons in my lst sentence above.

I really do believe in a balanced diet and in moderation.

[OakLeaf]

sometimes it's just not the same eating soy ice cream.

Try the coconut kind. It's brilliant.

(And I'm an American who doesn't use that word lightly. )

[KnottedYet]

how would you know that you are gluten intolerant or gluten sensitive, and are there health benefits to eating less gluten (and dairy for that matter) if you're not gluten intolerant?

I ask because I'm generally interested in healthy eating and try to keep an open mind to trying new stuff, my dh is dairy intolerant and I've grown increasingly so myself because of low exposure, and I just recently met several people at work who said that they could eat gluten but preferred not to because they "felt better without".

There is nothing wrong with gluten.

Some folks are genetically lacking the enzyme needed to digest gluten. If their immune system remains calm, the only side effect is flatulence and poopy issues. The gluten goes into the large intestine where the bacteria have a party and feast on the undigested gluten... and cause "lower intestinal excitement", shall we say...

For some people, something occurs (who knows what the trigger is, possibly a physiological stress) that makes the immune system sit up and take notice. The immune system takes a peek into the intestine and says, "What the heck is THAT!?!?" at the sight of a full and untouched protein bobbing around in the intestinal stew. Being ever-vigilant against invaders, the immune system assumes a full protein roaming unscathed through the small intestine must be an invader, and so produces antibodies against it.

Unfortunately, the same immune response to the imaginary "invader" delivers an almighty wollop to the intestine itself. The intestine malfunctions: not absorbing things it should, leaking things it shouldn't. This leads to deficiencies and to incompletely digested stuff entering the bloodstream. Bad news.

And, that same immune response rips up other tissues that are similar to the intestine (nerves, brain, skin).

Folks who have celiac (gluten intolerance) that has shifted into the immunological high gear will have wacky symptoms that seem to be completely unrelated to the gut.

Folks who haven't shifted into high gear or haven't had their immune system triggered will have pretty much just gut symptoms. A strong warning of things lurking on the horizon.

Both should avoid gluten.

There is absolutely NO benefit to avoiding gluten if you are genetically able to produce the gluten-digesting enzymes. In fact, such a person is missing out on a valuable protein source.

[KnottedYet]

I had a slice of pizza and some Annie's mac & cheese last night. Oh. My. G*d. I was so uncomfortable last night, even with taking digestive enzyme beforehand.

I can't stomach milk, literally and figuratively. It grosses me out to think I'm drinking breast milk from another animal.

A friend of mine has rheumatoid arthritis and she's cut out dairy from her diet. She reports that her flare ups are fewer and less painful now. I know I could do better without dairy, but sometimes it's just not the same eating soy ice cream.

There is no lactose in cheese. It gets digested by the critters that turn milk into cheese.

Little to no lactose in the pizza or the mac. However, both have a nice large dose of gluten, which is unaffected by OTC digestive enzymes.

Are you sure it's only dairy that is your problem?

(if it were a caseine issue, you'd have an allergic reaction to the cheese - histamine, autoimmune, and anaphylactic stuff)

Most celiackers are also missing the genetic trigger to produce enzyme to digest lactose as adults.

Just being Devil's Advocate here...

[shootingstar]

There is nothing wrong with gluten.

..............................................................................
Folks who haven't shifted into high gear or haven't had their immune system triggered will have pretty much just gut symptoms. A strong warning of things lurking on the horizon.

Both should avoid gluten.

There is absolutely NO benefit to avoiding gluten if you are genetically able to produce the gluten-digesting enzymes. In fact, such a person is missing out on a valuable protein source.

lph- Do you know if these people are also vegetarian?
Unless it is the body truly lacking specific enzymes for digestion, plus all symptoms described above...I kinda wonder all this super-fine tinkering and cutting back on naturally occurring nutrients is a great idea, when a body naturally can digest healthy protein (which has other nutrients also)

If I'm going to have my body intolerant to something, that would be too much sugar, too much salt, too much fat.. So I see my too-much butter intolerance and too-much alcohol intolerance, a good thing.

I continue to be amazed by the wonderous functions of our body: how many different processes function simultaneously and in synchronicity ..to keep us healthy and alive. Allow us to see, speak, have brain cognition etc. Mankind has not created a machine like our bodies.

I'm sure there are small amounts of multiple nutrients in 1 food source that the body breaks down to find good uses for it.

[malkin]

Maybe I'm a big meanie for saying it right out loud, but here it is:

Some of us really like paying lots and lots of attention to what we eat and especially to what we don't eat.

Maybe it makes us more special.

[badger]

There is no lactose in cheese. It gets digested by the critters that turn milk into cheese.

Little to no lactose in the pizza or the mac. However, both have a nice large dose of gluten, which is unaffected by OTC digestive enzymes.

Are you sure it's only dairy that is your problem?

(if it were a caseine issue, you'd have an allergic reaction to the cheese - histamine, autoimmune, and anaphylactic stuff)

Most celiackers are also missing the genetic trigger to produce enzyme to digest lactose as adults.

Just being Devil's Advocate here...

not sure. I knew that yogurt and cheese, because of the probiotics, are easier to digest, but I always feel somewhat icky after eating dairy. Me and latte...yeesh, after about an hour you do NOT want to be in the same room with me!!

And I LOVE bread. I'm able to digest that no problem, along with other stuff like pasta and crackers. Aside from the combustion problems after consuming dairy, I rarely have the "excited intestine" problem. Could I still be sensitive to gluten?