Shifting problem

[Catrin]

Try moving it more. Two smidgens. Three smidgens. Four smidgens. Move the shifter enough that the cage is centered relative to the chain. (trimming it means centering it or at least moving it enough that the chain isn't hitting the side plates of the der cage)

It could also be that the cage is set at a sharp angle to the chain line where you just can't trim it.

If you can't figure it out and do take it to the LBS, have them show you exactly what is going on and exactly how to fix it. Knowledge is power!

It only allows me to move it one smidgen and the next one puts me onto the next ring - it is indexed only. I will ask for more information this week when I take my bike to get the new saddle. Last week they adjusted the location of the cage and also changed where the stops were?

At least I got to see what is actually happening and can have a better discussion about it. Thanks!

[KnottedYet]

Well, if they changed the cage angle, that could be the problem.

Make sure they show you what is up, and how to fix it yourself next time.

[Trek-chick]

I was having the same problem with my Trek 520 especially on the middle ring too. I had my LBS adjust the rear dérailleur and it fixed the problem for a while. It started happening again and I was about ready to take the bike in again. The bike is only 4 months old too.

I think I figured out my problem though...... I commute to work and ride 9 miles in really dusty conditions on an old railroad bed. My drivetrain was getting pretty dirty within just a few days time. I can even see a thin layer of dust on the bike when I get home.

Whenever my shifting starts getting rough, I started just giving the bike and especially drivetrain a thourough cleaning and re-lube and the problem ( for me ) goes away. I actually just ordered myself a set of full-fenders so, hopefully it will help protect my drivetrain from road dirt and grime. I think I need a better chain lube too. My LBS used White Lightning... Self cleaning wax lube.

[Catrin]

I was having the same problem with my Trek 520 especially on the middle ring too. I had my LBS adjust the rear dérailleur and it fixed the problem for a while. It started happening again and I was about ready to take the bike in again. The bike is only 4 months old too.

I think I figured out my problem though...... I commute to work and ride 9 miles in really dusty conditions on an old railroad bed. My drivetrain was getting pretty dirty within just a few days time. I can even see a thin layer of dust on the bike when I get home.

Whenever my shifting starts getting rough, I started just giving the bike and especially drivetrain a thourough cleaning and re-lube and the problem ( for me ) goes away. I actually just ordered myself a set of full-fenders so, hopefully it will help protect my drivetrain from road dirt and grime. I think I need a better chain lube too. My LBS used White Lightning... Self cleaning wax lube.

When I had my bike on my car's bike rack last night I noticed that the RD and some other places looked pretty dirty, perhaps this is a similar problem. I use Rock and Roll dry lube which is a good lube - but have been unsure how often to relube and how often to clean and relube. I am averaging 100 miles a week right now so perhaps this is a part of the equation as well. I had not thought about this.

I think a work stand would make it easier for me to clean

[Becky]

When I had my bike on my car's bike rack last night I noticed that the RD and some other places looked pretty dirty, perhaps this is a similar problem. I use Rock and Roll dry lube which is a good lube - but have been unsure how often to relube and how often to clean and relube. I am averaging 100 miles a week right now so perhaps this is a part of the equation as well. I had not thought about this.

I think a work stand would make it easier for me to clean

My theory is this: 90% of all problems are caused by a too-dirty bike or a too-clean one (yeah, I have stories of trashed hubs and bottom brackets). Any time something's acting funny, start with a cleaning. You might solve it and, at the worst, your bike will be nice and clean when it goes to the mechanic. Trust me, the mechanic appreciates this very much!

If you're just cleaning with rags and water (no- or low-pressure), you really can't over-clean. My rule of lubing is to lube by ear. When you start hearing your chain, lube again and make a mental note of how long it's been since last time. Next time, lube a day or two (or xx miles) earlier

And yes, workstands make the whole job easier on the back and faster overall!

[OakLeaf]

Keeping the drivetrain clean is good, and a dirty or dry chain can be noisy, but it doesn't cause misalignment.

Having had an issue with a FD turning on the frame, I'd be surprised if that's the issue. Mine wouldn't shift to the small ring at all, but the chain wasn't rubbing in the middle ring.

Is it rubbing on the same side of the cage regardless of what gear you're in? Or is it rubbing on the inside in certain gears and the outside in others?

Or maybe it's too high, and rubbing the pin that connects the sides of the cages??



ETA, completely unrelated to your shifting issue:

there were not many hills today so I spent a good amount of time in the big chain

Do you have a cadence monitor? What kind of cadence are you maintaining? I don't remember what your gearing is and wouldn't have a clue which thread to find it in, but I'd be surprised if it's so low that you really ought to be using the big ring under 20 mph...

[KnottedYet]

Keeping the drivetrain clean is good, and a dirty or dry chain can be noisy, but it doesn't cause misalignment...


...I'd be surprised if it's so low that you really ought to be using the big ring under 20 mph...

I was wondering about shifting under load pulling things out of alignment, but I already wrote a tome on trimming; someone else can write about shifting under load.

According to Surly: 26-36-48. 11-34

[OakLeaf]

Well thank goodness for Sheldon then.

I don't know why the forum software is only showing a thumbnail of the chart at 80 rpm ... but you can click on the link for the 90 rpm chart.


Shifting under load (i.e. avoiding same) isn't that complicated. Catrin, has someone already explained that to you? The bike won't shift smoothly if you're putting a lot of pressure on the pedals, which makes the top of the chain super tight. Shifting under load can cause the chain to drop, it puts excess wear on the drivetrain, makes an awful noise while you're doing it (but not afterward), and can even cause immediate damage in extreme cases. When you shift, you need to be pedaling, but back off the pressure and soft-pedal. Ever shift a car without using the clutch (or with a worn-out second gear synchro )? You know how you have to get your RPMs in the right place to sync, then take your foot off the gas while you throw the gearshift? Same idea.

It can be tough when you're climbing a steep hill and realize that you've waited too long to downshift. The hill was steeper or longer than you realized when you chose your gear, and now you're going 4 mph at 45 rpm and you have a lower gear that you really want to grab. I know I occasionally wind up in that situation. When you shift, take as much load as you can off the pedals without falling over...

Still ... I can't see how shifting under load would pull the FD out of alignment unless the clamp was loose to begin with - especially on a steel frame where you don't have to be quite so ginger about the clamp torque. And I really don't think a FD could be so twisted that it would make noise all the time, but still allow you to shift into all three chainrings.

[KnottedYet]

Well thank goodness for Sheldon then.

Yeah! Can you put up the link? I gotta run catch my bus.

[OakLeaf]

Linky. You can plug in your gearing (stock cassette or custom) and wheel size and get gear ratios, gain ratios (if you put in your crankarm length), meters development or speed at a selection of cadences in mph or kph.

[Catrin]

The reason I've taken to using my big chain on flattish ground is that my chain doesn't make noise there and behaves itself. My rear cassette is 11-34, and some of the jumps between gears are pretty large.

In some cases I have a smaller range if I jump between the chains for some of the gear progression - someone checked out the gear ratio for my bike on Sheldon's site and suggested it. I've also found that I go a couple of mph faster if I am in the big chain on flattish ground (with the middle gear on the rear). My max speed so far that isn't downhill is 19.9 mph.

Oakleaf - it rubs on the same part of the FD cage regardless of what gear I am in.

As far as cadence is concerned, I try my best to keep it between 80-95 and as generally close to 85-89 as I can. Going uphill can generally keep it in the 70's - though when I am really struggling to get up that hill I don't think to look at my cadence but am focusing purely on perceived effort. On sprint intervals I am paying attention to my HRM (it is mounted on my bike) but can get cadence to 105 and this is typically on the big chain.

I understand about trying not to shift under load, so I try to anticipate when I will need to shift and to do it a little early, but not so early that I lose all of my speed too early. I am not successful with this much of the time but I seem to be improving.

I do try to "soft pedal" when I shift, and sometimes will even coast for the briefest of seconds while I shift and then start pedaling to complete the shift. This is a carry-over from when I first started to learn how to shift and at that time my coordination was worse and would go all over the road if I tried to shift and pedal at the same time I will pay attention to this in case I am not soft-pedaling as much as I think I am...

Thanks everyone, you have given me some things to think about and check out. Cleaning my drive train does seem a good idea, but there does seem to be more going on than that. At least my LBS will appreciate a clean bike later this week!

[OakLeaf]

Which part of the cage does the chain rub? That'll help isolate what needs adjustment.

[Catrin]

Which part of the cage does the chain rub? That'll help isolate what needs adjustment.

Standing at the rear of the bike looking at the FD, it is the upper right part of the cage. There is a part there that comes down, then goes over to the right - which is the perfect place for the chain to rub. And so it does.

Is that a good enough description? I can always take a pic tonight and post it...

[OakLeaf]

mmmkay. It sounds like your cable just needs a little tightening (just as I originally thought - after the shop repositioned the cable, everything will settle a little and need a tweak within a few rides). But two last questions to be sure.

Does it rub when you're in your very tallest gear (your 48x11)?

What about in your very shortest gear (your 26x34)?

[Catrin]

mmmkay. It sounds like your cable just needs a little tightening (just as I originally thought - after the shop repositioned the cable, everything will settle a little and need a tweak within a few rides). But two last questions to be sure.

Does it rub when you're in your very tallest gear (your 48x11)?

What about in your very shortest gear (your 26x34)?

It mainly only rubs in the middle chain - they originally had it adjusted so that I could use the tallest gear on the middle chain without rubbing, but now it always rubs once I get higher than the middle gear (if 1=lowest, it now rubs on gears 6-9 on the back;s sometimes even on 5). This doesn't leave many effective non-rubbing gears for me on the middle chain...

I do not recollect rubbing in the shortest gear when in the middle chain - but I am so rarely there. Typically by that point I probably have already headed down to the granny chain.

Very occasionally it will rub on the other two chains, but rarely. I try to be very conscious about cross-chaining - especially on the granny and big chains.

All of this is very helpful in understanding all of this. It is time for me to understand my drive-train, and once they show me how to adjust this I will be good to go