Tricks for keeping the 'bits' happy

[KnottedYet]

I have read through all the comments but I struggle with this too, but not from the UTI point. I am on my 4th, or is it 5th, saddle for this season and hope this one will be satisfactory. I was uncomfortable to the point of bleeding last week so have allowed healing time and finally rode yesterday without that happening again. Chamois Butter, shorts, good saddle, seems all to have a bearing but am thinking it is low estrogen and thin tissues. Anyone else dealing with this and finding a workable solution?

If you post your sit bone measurements, I bet there will be a few people with similar experiences who can recommend saddles that have worked for them.

Saddles really are not supposed to make you bleed.
(regardless of tissue condition)

[Crankin]

The low estrogen and thinning tissues played a huge part in my original problem about 5 or 6 years ago. I got that solved and the riding part was much better.
Ask your doctor about an E-String.

[gayledb]

Crankin - Never heard of E-string before but am sure ready to try anything. So far last two rides have been uneventful, so that is encouraging. I will check on the E-string and see if the doc knows about that. Can you give me any more info about it. I gather it is Estrogen something or other. I agree, saddles should not cause bleeding. Saddles have been a challenge from the get go for me but this was really over the top!

[SpinSpinSugar]

Yes, that is correct. Thank you for the clarification.. what can be done apart from the usual.

To answer your question Muirenn:

I've had a professional fit done - ended up changing my stem to a shorter/taller one so I'm not reaching so far and putting less pressure on the front. I use a Brooks B17 Imperial at the moment, but I have used many many different types - all with a large cutouts. (My sitbones measure 155 on the Specialized butt-oh-meter)

Saddles I've tried:

Specialized: Sonoma, Jett, Alias, Dolce, and one that does not have a model name that came on a bike that my friend gave me
2 different Bontrager models with cutouts (cant remember which models)
Terry: Butterfly, Butterfly Ti, Liberator, Butterfly Tri-Gel
Selle An-Atomica
Selle Italia Gel Flow
Brooks: B17, B67, B17 Imperial S, B17 Imperial mens (current saddle)
Serfas RX
Respiro Moderate Bike Saddle

The issue seems to be that I have a lot of tissue down there and no matter what I do or what saddle I use it ends up getting sweaty and eventually "untucks" and gets pinched and chafed. Tight shorts help, but eventually those too bunch up and get shoved up in there and the chafing begins. I have read many threads on this forum about women who have more down there than others (I am definitely one who falls into that category) and are having discomfort due to that extra tissue. (Since we can't just shove it aside like guys can) So that is why I posted what I do to work around this issue. I probably should have clarified that at the beginning.

SpinSpinSugar

[SpinSpinSugar]

Hi Muirenn, I do all my "tweaking" with a measuring tape and the measurements the fit professional gave me. -Actually I ended up lowering my saddle and raising my bars a few cm from what the fit recommended just to put myself back on my sit-bones even more. And I do tweak it often during the ride to keep myself in the comfort zone - usually into more of an upright/shorter reach position.

My Dr. is the one who approved the use of AZO for the discomfort (when I asked her about it) since all the tests for UTI/Yeast/BV came back negative. She also said that if the pain/burning lasted longer than 3 days after the ride then it should be looked at, but for temporary inflammation - 24 hours or less - that AZO was harmless but would stain my underwear.

SpinSpinSugar

[trista]

+1 on the tucking of the bits. I felt the pinch the other day and had to stop do to some readjusting. I felt like a man, grabbing my crotch, lol.

Something else I learned was to keep the hair, um, short. Nothing worse than a rogue hair.

[KnottedYet]

Does it make any difference if you wear snug compression shorts under your bike shorts?

I did that a couple times and it certainly made my chamois-shorts far more comfortable.

Things stayed tucked up and smoothed out, and the compression shorts slid over the chamois instead of me sliding. Almost no friction. It was nifty.

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

What a thread.
Dry sticky lube?....that's an oxymoron. Dry and sticky is the opposite of lubricant. Maybe rubber cement?

Taking various pills just for a 3 hour ride... Something else must be wrong there somewhere. Is your diet healthy? Are you eating and drinking enough healthy stuff? Do you get frequent urinary infections?

I personally feel if you have lots of problems with irritation in that area, you shouldn't be shaving down there at all. A modest trim is just the ticket.

[KnottedYet]

(I'm dying to try one and have been researching sizing. Was it Knotted Yet or Oakleaf who posed the math on that?)

Sit Bones and Suspended Saddles

The metal cantle plate is NOT a good place to set the bones.
Actual sitting space is the overall width minus the width of the cantle plate x2 (for left and right sides of the saddle)

So, for a Brooks B17 the math goes like this:

170mm - 2(10mm) = 150mm
(saddle width) - 2(plate width) = (what you can sit on)

What you can sit on must be equal or greater than the outside width of your sit bones, or else you are sitting over the metal plate rather than on the suspended leather.

For the example of someone with 155mm sit bones, a B17 is too narrow. For a suspended leather saddle to fit, this must be true:
(what you can sit on) = or > (outside bone width)

150mm suspended leather span is NOT equal or greater than 155mm sit bone span.

Someone with 155mm sit bones will be planting bone on metal. The body doesn't like that sensation, and will go into an anterior pelvic tilt. That presses the soft tissue into the saddle as the pelvis rocks forward onto the rami in an attempt to get clear of the metal.

Quick-n-dirty Formula

(width of saddle) - 2(width of plate) = > (outside sit bone measurement)

[KnottedYet]

As I watched this "bits" drama unfold, I kept wanting to post "Different strokes for different folks".... but I was afraid I'd get into trouble. I'm not familiar with the medication mentioned, so I had nothing to add there. (but oh, boy, did compression shorts under my chamois shorts make a huge difference... I'm happy to add lots about that trick!)

Since my outside sitbones are 160, that means I need minimum 180 to compensate for the 20 mm plate-total, right? Inside distance doesn't matter.

Is this correct?

Also, I normally need a cutout. Both from experience and from the nifty chair/cutout test. Does it go the same for a Brooks? I know leather can give a lot. At least eventually.

I'm wondering if I'd need the cutout, or maybe just the one with the 3 holes. I do generally need one as much as the OP

I'd love to put Brooks leather bar tape and saddle on my old steel road bike. Especially in the honey-colored leather. Beautiful.

Plate total and outside width:
Yup, if the saddle you are considering has a 1 cm plate, you need to figure on NOT sitting on the plate. So subtract the plate (left and right, so 2 cm on Brooks) from the width of the saddle. (Brooks plates are 1 cm, I don't know Velo Orange or Selle An Atomica plates so I always use Brooks plates as an example) This is where your outside width matters. You don't want any part of the bones wolloping the plate.

Center-to-Center width matters more for padded saddles with curved top surfaces (Brooks are generally quite flat on the top). You would ideally have your centers land on the cheek centers of the saddle. So on the top of the domes of the saddle cheeks rather than on the slopes. If your centers land on the outer slopes of the domes you can just imagine how the wedging effect of the saddle top contour could jam up into your soft tissue.

Cut-Out:
Brooks are not known for their comfy noses. They are very narrow and very hard. I've had to work the leather of the nose on every one of my Brooks saddles by hand. They can be quite uncomfortable on the bits. A good half hour or more with lots of Proofhide. If you have any inclination that you need a cut-out, buy the Imperial version of whatever saddle you choose. I haven't heard anyone complain that the Brooks Imperial pinches shut like the Selle An Atomica, but since I have neither saddle don't take my word for it. Order your saddle from www.wallbike.com and you'll have 6 months to decide if you like the cut-out or not.

[KnottedYet]

You know the B17-S would be too narrow, IF your 160mm is very accurate. If you think you may be a bit on the smaller side in riding postion (remember the rami and tuberosities angle in as they go forward) you could probably get away with the B17-S, but you'd have that shorter nose...

People with small bones ride the B68, etc. If the excess width is posterior to the ischial tuberosities, it shouldn't cause any difficulty. Nothing moves there. Just like you can perch on the edge of a 6 foot wide bench and still "air pedal." (thats extra wide, eh? but it doesn't interfere with hip motion)

If you are interested in a Brooks, try the one that appeals to you most. If that doesn't work within 6 months, send it back to Wallingford Bicycle Parts for a full refund.

[soprano]

I haven't heard anyone complain that the Brooks Imperial pinches shut like the Selle An Atomica, but since I have neither saddle don't take my word for it.

I have a Brooks Imperial with right about 1000 miles on it. My experience was that as the saddle started to break in, the slot started to pinch. At that time I tightened up the laces. No more pinching. That was about 800 miles ago.

Muirenn, I also think that a honey colored Brooks with matching tape would be lovely. Unfortunately, the Imperials only come in black. Oh well, it's not as flashy so I suppose that it's less likely to be stolen

[ivorygorgon]

I am thankful to the OP for posting her ideas. I am having a terrible time with the bits. I actually get swollen and stay swollen for several days after a longish ride. I have also had a couple of yeast infections and I have never in my life had any problems like that until I started riding. Any discussion and ideas are worth throwing out there. Not everybody has to take every suggestion.

[KnottedYet]

I realized that last night when I looked a little more closely

I think the main issue would be that I'm in between sizes.

Still want one though

Buy one or the other.

Try it for six months.

If the first one you buy doesn't feel right, send it back in exchange for the other one.

Bill at www.wallbike.com is a very understanding guy. His Brooks business is roaring along because he gets it that leather saddles need to break in, and he gets it that it can take months to decide on a saddle. He often sells out of particular saddles because customers trust that they can get saddles from him with no risk for 6 months. (he sells returned saddles on eBay, I think.) Many members of the TE Brooks Cult have dealt with Bill. I've talked to him several times and emailed him. There really is no problem returning saddles to him. It's part of his successful business model!

I'm just bummed he moved his business from Seattle to New Orleans...

[Thorn]

If I need 180 I'm going to assume 177 would be painful due to the plate and 210 just too wide.

Listen to Knotted. Never too wide.

That said, you questioned the cutout. When I finnaly broke down and bought the B68, I was hoping the lack of cutout wouldn't be a problem (I had been riding an SMP that was a skosh too narrow but had that awesome cutout). Nope.

At the time, there was no Imperial. I sent my brand new B68 to Selle Anatomica and had the leather reinforced and a slot cut into it. Bummer. It pinched.

Then I got out the drill and put holes in the sides and laced it up tight. Better. A little sand paper to fine tune the slot and I've got almost the perfect saddle.

When I first put the saddle on the bike, I got a lot of snickers about putting a cruiser saddle on my go-fast road bike. Now that it is broken in and the sit area is dented, the snickerers are silenced. Some of us do need that width (and given how many live on this board, I sometimes question those oft-quoted percentile numbers....but maybe I just don't like to be unusual). But I digress.

As to the OP....yeah, sometimes TE-ers can get a little over the top. But, with a few rare exceptions, they mean well.