heavier bike + saddle time

[sundial]

Picking arbitrary numbers, here's an illustration:

17 lb bike + 123 HR + 15 mph over 20 miles

34 lb. bike + 145 HR + 11 mph over 10 miles

So in thinking what ZenSo, Irulan and GLC has suggested, I may not get equal cardio benefit but I will increase strength to power ratio?

I keep thinking of all those fitness equipment commercials where they advertise quicker fitness in less time by doing more work in less time (i.e. heavier weights, less repetitions). If my heart is challenged more over a shorter period, I'm wondering if I can equal or gain cardio benefit in return.

I don't mean to sound like a broken record, I'm just perplexed. Any physiologists are welcome to chime in.

[Eden]

For the example Sundial gave, I assumed that Baily and his aunt were walking together (over the same distance) and therefore were going the same speed. His aunt put forth more effort because she was carrying more weight.

If you have limited time for your workout, taking the heavier bike and riding it the same speed (for example: a 15 mile loop on your lunch hour), would give you a better workout.

Indeed - if all other factors are equal, then heavier will be a better workout, but the original question was about wether a heavier bike for less time was equal or better to a lighter bike for twice the amount of time. To keep everything else equal, I think you would have to do a great deal of monitoring. It's very easy to just slow down when you are carrying more weight....

[sundial]

Sorry Eden, I didn't see your calculation on the first page. That makes sense.

So I'm still better off riding longer with a lower heart rate than riding shorter with a higher heart rate. Right?

[GLC1968]

Sundial - what you are looking with those numbers are essentially two different types of workouts. One is more intense and shorter, the other is less intense and longer. Both have benefits and should be part of a comprehensive plan. Is one better than the other? That depends on your goals.

For most people, the best results come from variety - so both would be better than one or the other. Yay, more excuse to ride!

By the way, there are volumes written on the most effective form of cardio for weight loss, calorie burning, CV improvement, etc. Even the experts don't agree. Honestly, the best answer is that the BEST workout is the one you will do most consistently.

[canonsue]

I would strap on a heart monitor and try your experiment and report back. It would be interesting just to see what the results would be. I would try it, but I only have one bike.

-Sue

[Eden]

Still wrapping my head all the way around this one. So it does sound like you are working harder on the heavier bike and that is good. If the time you spend on the bike is the same, its just the distance that changes and you are seeing your hr higher then you are likely getting a better workout.

In the end it doesn't have as much to do with the bike as it does with good monitoring and adjusting your workout.... I can get the same workout with any of my bikes, the only variation will be the distance covered. The gearing is a bit lower on my heavier bike, so I'm probably not getting any more workout in that respect.

If you have a reason to go less distance, but want a harder workout use the heavier bike. For example I can get a good workout on my commute, which is a set distance by using a heavier bike. If I were to use a lighter bike then I'd have to find extra distance to make up the time (my workouts are all set by time) - With the heavier bike I can still do the workout, but since its slower it takes the requisite amount of time. If you are doing a lot of stop and go, then the heavier bike may be the best choice. For me at least, with the lighter bike it takes longer to get up to the amount of effort I need. If its stop and go, I may not be able to get in enough hard efforts on the lighter bike.

[RoadRaven]

Well fiddle. I was thinking if I upped my intensity (heavier bike) it would make up for the change in duration (lighter bike) but equal frequency (daily).
My heart rate is up on the heavier bike, too.

If your heart rate is up, you are getting a good workout, and as long as you are in that "heavy breathing but can still talk" stage, and you ride for about 40 minutes you are in the aerobic/fat-burning zone.

Churning a heavier bike along will make you stronger, but as Eden said, it is easy to slow down when things are heavier/harder. She has explained the maths well and it really depends what your ultimate goal is from riding in different ways on different bikes.

My training bike is about the same weight as my time trial bike, but much heavier than my carbon racing bike. I intend to always keep it that way because training with more weight one the bike (I always put two full bottles on the bike too, even though I alot of my training rides are only 60-90 minutes and I only consume about one bottle, if that) because training with more weight on hills translates to be faster on hills on my lighter race set-up.

[RoadRaven]

Hi Eden

We're posting at the same time!

In the end it doesn't have as much to do with the bike as it does with good monitoring and adjusting your workout.... I can get the same workout with any of my bikes, the only variation will be the distance covered. The gearing is a bit lower on my heavier bike, so I'm probably not getting any more workout in that respect.

If you have a reason to go less distance, but want a harder workout use the heavier bike.

Yup, what I was trying to say. Heavier kit = harder workout (as long as you push yourself in the same way and don't just tootle. You have to monitor how you feel/ how your body responds)

LOL... when I started riding I thought you just hopped on your bike and rode - turns out it's quite scientific and mathematical!

[smilingcat]

Interesting point about slowing down to compensate for the extra load. So you don't get the benefit of all that extra weight. The extra weight is definitly putting more stress on your body.

Years ago my father made an interesting comment to me. Had to do with bike racing in the early years of Olympic. He said, "When they still had rickshaws, bike pedalling kind (talking about 1910ish...) and the modern Olympic was still in infancy, Japan sent a team of these riders. They figured because they were pulling two or more people on these "bikes" they should really fly with just themselves. Needless to say, it didn't work out that way."

When you are pulling the heavier load, I think your body mechanic is different than if you were "pulling" a lighter load. So not sure except for Bicilista's comment and her husband.

I've wondered about training on a "heavy bike" with fat tires with big knobbies to increase the rolling resistance. But all the annecdotal comments points to "we adjust our workout to compensate for the extra load. Thus you don't see any benefits"

Can someone buy me a Ti frame bike that weighs less than 15 pounds ? pretty please wih sugar on top

[RoadRaven]

But all the annecdotal comments points to "we adjust our workout to compensate for the extra load. Thus you don't see any benefits"

Ignores plee for new bike... cause if anyones offering, I want it!

Hey there Cat
I think you will always get a benefit, because your muscles are working under greater resistence/effort.
Its just, is it the same similar workout on a heavier bike? And if the object of the workout is to be in zone 3 or 4, then you might have to try to spin those legs a bit faster rather than grind the gears more slowly.
I think thats it...

Ah well, I like the "sound" of my own voice... and I just wanted to say "Hi Cat!!" too

[sundial]

If you have a reason to go less distance, but want a harder workout use the heavier bike. For example I can get a good workout on my commute, which is a set distance by using a heavier bike. If I were to use a lighter bike then I'd have to find extra distance to make up the time (my workouts are all set by time) - With the heavier bike I can still do the workout, but since its slower it takes the requisite amount of time.

See, that's what I'm doing. I'm using the heavy commuter bike to squeeze in a good workout in less time. I use the lighter bike for longer, faster rides.

And I did notice that when I rode the mtb often, I didn't see that much of a change in strength or endurance on the road bike. The speed was the only thing that changed.

This is an interesting discussion and thank you for sharing your thoughts.

[Heifzilla]

Mimi, this bike weighs 34 lbs and is heavier than my FS mtb. I was thinking today--if I can tackle hills with this bike, imagine how speedy I'll be on the other bikes.

I worked on hills today, too, and I was thinking *exactly* this. I mean, if I can haul my butt and my 34+ pound bike up hills and get to the point where it doesn't cause me to collapse at the top I think that if I ever got on a lighter bike I'd be able to whip up those hills like nothing. This just makes sense to me.

And, I think I work pretty hard on my bike. I've never ridden a lighter bike, so I have no comparison and don't mentally go around thinking that my bike is heavier so I can't work as hard on it. Know what I mean?

[TxDoc]

He's a believer in using a heavier bike to train and a lighter bike for the important rides.

I sort of agree with his strategy, as long as the setup and geometry of both bikes is the same.

[Zen]

I don't know if this will help or just add to the confusion but what the hey. Might as well toss it in the pot
http://www.workoutsforyou.com/article_fitt.htm

[sundial]

I've never ridden a lighter bike, so I have no comparison and don't mentally go around thinking that my bike is heavier....

Lol, when I weighed my bikes and I got dese numbers stuck in mah head. FS=30 lbs (with rack and shin eater pedals) and comooter bike=34 lbs. Funny thing is until I got my Globe I was doing daily noodle rides on my mtb, not the light bike. I'm a glutton for punishment.