Advice please: wage negotiation

[Running Mommy]

Funny, I was reading down the replies thinking... "where is mr. silver, this is the perfect thread for him"....
And low and behold, he had chimed in. I agree w/him. If you can't take the risk of a potential pay cut, I would stay.

[Mr. Bloom]

Funny, I was reading down the replies thinking... "where is mr. silver, this is the perfect thread for him"....
And low and behold, he had chimed in. I agree w/him. If you can't take the risk of a potential pay cut, I would stay.

Thanks for thinking of me I've been swamped and mentally fragged beyond measure lately...so I've been scarce...

[LBTC]

Thank you, Mr. S, I was hoping to hear from you!

Initially, the reason I wanted to leave: horrible boss. That has changed so that I currently have a good boss, but by June I will be working for both of them. Yuk. One of the partners at the new firm, which is a small local office, but has many people placed throughout Canada and the US, is a guy I used to work with. I know I can work for him.

Have you heard of the Canadian Forest Industry? That's what this larger company I work for is in. I'm seeing a few signs that there could be more "right sizing" coming. Frightening, but I've been with the company for 12 years, so they've got to pony up bucks if they drop the hammer. Also, I've been on a great pension plan for 10 of those 12 years - they changed it 2 years back - so the pension is important, but it's not as critical as it might be for some.

The way I see it, I'll ask for their numbers, compare them to my numbers, have an in person meeting with them as soon as possible, and give them my counter offer. I'll see the reaction then and we'll see if we can settle.

I really like the idea of changing the job title. Any suggestions?

Add to all this that my grandmother passed away a couple of hours ago. A whole new thing to deal with all at the same time. That's life, right?

Thanks for all of your ideas and thoughts. Let me know if there's more you can tell me.

Hugs and butterflies,
~T~

[shootingstar]

SS - what sort of work do you do?

In my experience, an administrative assistant always has some vagueness in the job description. But there are some specifics, and some strategic things they want my help and expertise with.

Yes, with the information I have today, I plan to retire in Vernon. That's 15-25 years away (holy!), so, obviously, things can change in that time, but we moved here with that in mind, and we haven't had any desire to change that yet.

I'm sorry about your grandmother's death.

In this particular job, I am a document control manager. My job requires planning, hands-on database design, taxonomy design, working with dept. heads to develop and implement project-wide best practices and quality procedures for document workflow and document/records management. Job includes developing and delivering computer-based group training regularily. Our business controls must meet specific project contractual needs for records retention. Job requires interpreting and implementing practices that meet legislative requirements at federal and provincial level.

By the end of next year, have forecasted over 100,000 different documents (electronic & originals). All of this acquired within a 3-yr. period. System is deployed for 150 employees over 6 different locations. (There are nearly 300 employed, but not all want to darken an office doorway.). Some of these locations are work trailers..out in muddy fields...I have to make site visits to all. I do manage /supervise and evaluate other staff.

In the engineering sector, document management systems are audited to met ISO QA standards. Have in the past, audited other departments, which were libraries.

My formal training and other career experience is as a librarian. You'll find us in: knowledge management, content management, document/records management, competitive intelligence....plus your so-called "libraries".

Hope you make a meaningful decision for yourself. As for the stability of a job, nothing is forever these days. Not even in govn't...one could easily be shifted somewhere else. I don't hang my hat on a company pension..but as long as the pension can be vested and is portable, if one leaves.

Forest industry in B.C. has seen some big changes in past decade. Not easy... But then the mining industry that seems to be bouncing not too badly, might fall on its nose later...as it did for quite awhile.

[Deborajen]

I really like the idea of changing the job title. Any suggestions?

What would the job title be if it were a male employee? Titles are important to men - or at least they definitely have been everywhere I've worked. Get away from the word "assistant." Maybe "analyst," "specialist," or even "technician" emphasizes skill and expertise. Watered down titles encourage lower compensation, and they're dead weight on a resume.

Deb

[Grog]

Manager
Expert
Analyst
Coordinator
Director

Good luck LBTC. I agree that you have earned to graduate above the eternal AA.

[tulip]

I agree, Administrative Assistant will not serve you well for future positions, plus it sounds like you are way past that.

Strategist or Analyst come to mind, knowing the very tiny bit I do about the position.

When I lived in France (different work culture), I could have gotten an admin asst or secretarial position easily, but I was way overqualified (several graduate degrees, but none from a French university). It would have been a good start in the US, to get a foothold in a new country and learn alot and work my way into a position that I was qualified for. But in France, once you have that title, that's what you'll be tagged with. It's a different work culture there, of course, which is one reason I came back to North America.

[SheFly]

LBTC - so sorry to hear about your grandmother. Make sure that you take care of yourself during this time.

You've had some great advice hear. In terms of alternate titles, what about something like Project Coordinator/Manager? If you really are going to be doing a lot of process definition (I do this too, and I am a Global Program Manager for a large high-tech company), what about Process Coordinator or Manager?

Good luck to you in whatever you decide to do! Remember that you have to look out for yourself above all else, even in the negotiations.

SheFly

[LBTC]

Thank you everyone! I have not heard back about the value of the rest of their compensation proposal yet, nor have I heard back about the value of my current pension. I am taking this time to try to strategize the next meeting, which I believe should be in person. This will be a new thing for me - ask for what I want in person, and ask for it because I'm worth it. Should be interesting.

I really like the idea of changing the title. DH has incorporated some other suggestions and feels I should ask for this:
Super Process Documentation Administration Coordination Queen


I guess he left out sexy to be more professional. heehee

Yes, having a giggle is still important. I'll keep you all posted if anything new happens. Please keep those ideas coming if you have any more!

Hugs and butterflies,
~T~

[KSH]

Hey LBTC, sorry to hear about your Grandmother's death. How very sad.

A new job prospect is very exciting.

Well, I guess I'm just too simple... I first look at the salary. If the salary is MORE than what I'm making, I then look at the benefits. If the benefits are very close to my current job... I go for it. But most of my jobs have been pretty much the same in the areas of benefits, so there wasn't a whole lot to haggle there.

As for salary negotiation, I just give a number that is 10%+ more than what I'm currently making. Bam. It's done.

[boy in a kilt]

Unfortunately, I've had to do my fair share of salary negotiations in the past few years and I'm hoping to start a new set in the next week or two. The subject has already come up in the current round of interviews I'm doing.

I've found it's best to have a good range. The lowest number I'll provide is the lowest salary I would take plus about 10%. The high end of the range tells me something about their expectations. If they offer me the upper end of my range, that's a sign their expectations may exceed my ability to meet them and we need to revisit the job description.

Here's something to consider. Ask for periodic reviews and potential compensation increases based on the results of your review. If it's truly an environment where you are happy and productive, it'll show in your work and the reviews provide a good forum to discuss your true worth to the company.

BTW, the job I'm interviewing for right now doesn't really have a title per se. The president kept referring to me as the "Tech Dude."

[Mr. Bloom]

Initially, the reason I wanted to leave: horrible boss. That has changed so that I currently have a good boss, but by June I will be working for both of them. Yuk.

That's motivation. I've adhered to a simple rule in 23 years of work. My priorities to professional happiness are in this order:
1) Who I work for - do I respect & trust them, can I follow them
2) Who I work with - can we work well together, enjoy our environment, be a team
3) What I do - is it enjoyable, challenging, etc

There's 20 other things that are important to me (money included), but I find if these three things are in place, everything else will follow.

Maybe this is why I've only had three different employers in 23 years... I actually got fired from my last job because I refused to sign a non-compete agreement...why? because I didn't trust the guys I worked for and refused to be permanently yoked to them...

Follow your heart and your gut...you'll make the right choice

[Mr. Bloom]

Did anything happen?

[LBTC]

Thanks for checking in Mr. Silver.

Last Tuesday I picked up their benefits brochure and compared their package to mine, and talked with an accountant I know to try to value the pension plan I would be leaving behind. I calculated a high figure to factor in everything, a low figure to cover base wages and out of pocket which would allow the bonus to try to make up the difference, and a few levels in between.

On Thursday I emailed my contact, requesting an in-person meeting so we could discuss the offer. I didn't give any numbers in my email as I think this is better done in person. I have not received a response yet. I know they have a lot of travel going on, so I'm attributing the lack of response to that.

While I think this is a good opportunity in many ways, it is not vital and necessary at this point for me to move to another job. If they want me, we'll figure out something that works for all parties.

Thank you for your excellent counsel on the subject. I'm still hopeful!

Hugs and butterflies,
~T~

[LBTC]

I just heard from him by email. Looks like we can set up a meeting some time next week, when both partners are in town. Hey, at least he didn't tell me to go away.

H&B
~T~