How do you explain one of them...

[quint41]

You need to have an honest discussion with your boss. Saying no when they try to give you new assignments will backfire on you. You need to talk to the boss, but it's all in how you present it.

I would not approach it from the angle that working 6-6 is killing you and you just can't take it any more. Rather, I'd approach it from the angle that you find yourself feeling anxious, stressed and out of sorts because you drive yourself so hard that you no longer make time to take care of yourself. Tell your boss that in the past, you made time to cycle after work 3 times per week, but you are such a workaholic that you find you are not making that time anymore, and it's starting to affect you negatively. You really miss it. Now that the sun isn't setting until after 7, and it's warming up, you are really itching to get some exercise for your health and sanity, but it's impossible when you come to work at 6 and don't leave until 6.

See ... you present it like it's YOUR problem, and you are asking your boss for advice ... what do YOU think I could do to change this situation, because I'm afraid if I don't make time for myself to get some exercise and take care of myself, I am going to burn out. I love my job, I love doing it well, but I know I need to take care of myself at the same time and am having trouble doing that.

It wouldn't help to cite some articles that you've read recently about the importance of finding a balance between work and personal life. Try these:
http://www.worklifebalance.com/workl...cedefined.html
http://www.businessweek.com/1996/38/b34931.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Work-life_balance
http://www.intelihealth.com/IH/ihtIH...=dmtHMSContent

I learned one thing a long time ago ... if I eat lunch at my desk, it won't take long for "them" to expect me to eat lunch at my desk. If I go to the cafeteria, THAT will be the anomoly. When I took the job that I currently have, I made the decision to NEVER eat at my desk unless it could absolutely not be helped. I leave my desk every single day, whether it's to eat or take a walk around the building. I take the bus to work. That limits how late I can stay, because if I miss that last bus, I'm stuck. (And nobody needs to know what time the "last bus" really leaves -- it's not like anyone's going to look it up.) You know what I'm saying? Sometimes we create our own problems.

Hey, how about this, too? Why don't you see if anyone else in your office rides? If so, start a fun biking group of coworkers. One day a week, you all leave at a reasonable hour and go for a ride. Even if they don't bike at the same level as you, it would be fun, you can coach them along, and you'd also now have others who share your desire to balance work and wellness!

Good luck.

[GLC1968]

You've gotten some good advice here, and I think I might try and utilize some of it myself!

I can totally relate to how you are feeling. I came home a couple of times last week ready to blow my lid because I'd missed my riding oportunities. I missed group rides AND I missed being able to commute because I had work to do. I don't necessarily take on too much work, but I totally suck at asking for help. It's like admitting that I can't do it all and aren't we told from birth that as women, we CAN do it all?!? My situation is that I work for a company where they do believe in balance...just not always for us non-parents. Plus, I have two very high profile assignments, and I feel like everyone is watching and that I need to prove myself every day...even when others don't. Add to this that it's not my direct supervisor who is asking all this of me....it's the project. My supervisor would be happy to say "go home" with a smile on his face, but he's not the one on the conf call with the customer having to admit to not having all the analysis done (or whatever). The work HAS to get done...somehow...

Anyway, two days last week, I managed to escape for a lunch ride (only 17 miles..but WAY better than nothing) and it made a huge difference. This week, I'm determined to not let work get in the way of my group ride (which is tonight) and my commutes.

I think that somehow, you are going to have to find a way to fit it in. Maybe it's coming in later, maybe it's leaving early at least one day each week, maybe it's by riding at lunch...whatever you can do to get it in there. Speaking from my experience last week, even just one ride a week will really, really help. Hang in there and know that you are not alone!

[Triskeliongirl]

I am one of those science PhDs, and for me I find the most effecient way to ride during the work week is by cycle commuting. Then I do club rides early sat. and sun. morning. Its not just about how it looks to your boss, its about what lets you get your work done and feel sane while doing it. Now, maybe if I was training to race this plan wouldn't work, but I do find the commuting miles, while not fast miles, are real miles, and notice the change in performance on my weekend rides when I am not doing them. If you are more serious about training than me, perhaps you could also combine a training ride with a commuting ride. Then all you have to ask you boss for is access for a shower rather than released time from work.

[li10up]

I too have one of those live to work instead of work to live bosses. You'd think he would have changed his perspective after the heart attack....nope. If something comes up at 5pm, even if it isn't an emergency, he doesn't want to wait until the next morning to address it. It's hard to say, "Hey, boss...I have a life you know."

Maybe you can just tell him that you have some "personal business." ???

If you figure it out I'm sure there are a bunch of us who would like to know how you resolved it. Good luck!

[RoadRaven]

As Women's Rep and Acting Dep. Chair of our union at work, I have been encouraging staff to log their hours for about a month before going to their section manager to discuss the workload issues.

I suggest any of you do this if you have workload issues. Quint is right - you need to be honest and upfront with your boss.

I made a decision last year to try and stop bringing work home.

This year my decision is to cut the "try" out of the sentence. I know there will be times when I have students work I need to bring home to finish marking, but I have already crossed off days in my diary to do marking at work throughout the year.

Anything extra I do at home/in my time I log - most commonly this is the on-line component of my classes which I often do when I cant sleep (today I was on one class forum from 4-5:30am).

My decision to stop doing long hours at the office was fuelled by missing my partner and him feeling it too, as well as getting home some nights and finding children in bed - or asleep!

My decision to stop bringing my work home was fuelled by my youngest who would angrily tell me he hated my laptop...

[Wahine]

Kimmy, I don't have any words of brilliance for you above and beyond what others have said. I just wanted to add that in the academic world of research PhDs the average life expectancy is 63 years. That's about 10 years less than the rest of the population and it means that more than half of them die before they even retire.

Think about that when you are deciding if it's worth rocking the boat to fight for your right to lead a balanced life.

[Mr. Bloom]

I feel compelled to discourage defining absolutes...for example: "I will never work past 5PM".

As I said earlier, I encourage and model balance. But I also model "rising to the challenge". In other words, I can't predict tomorrow, but I know that if something urgent arises, we all need to hunker down and get it done.

Today, I did an 18 hour day, but yesterday I left a few minutes early to capitalize on the great weather for a 20 mile ride. 19 miles into that ride, I stopped and talked to my boss/CEO while he and his wife walked their dogs as they were capitalizing on the good weather as well

But, if everyday is a crisis requiring everyone to always hunker down...THEN that's my job as boss to reconsider staffing and resources to reestablish balance.

[Grog]

Kimmy, I don't have any words of brilliance for you above and beyond what others have said. I just wanted to add that in the academic world of research PhDs the average life expectancy is 63 years. That's about 10 years less than the rest of the population and it means that more than half of them die before they even retire.

Think about that when you are deciding if it's worth rocking the boat to fight for your right to lead a balanced life.

Wow that's an amazing stat, where did you get that? I'm very interested.

[Trek420]

It's not just professionals. I'm a union customer service rep, my job IS 9 -5 (well 8:30 - 5:30). I take an hour lunch and if I'm on a call a nano'second after 5:30 it's OT.

It's a good job, fabulous benefits, pay's good and every once in a while I really get to help people But i gotta have my "me" time.

While others in the office take half hour lunches I NEEEEEED that hour to walk, go to the gym, sometimes just climb stairs in the building or I'll climb the walls.

And if I'm talking to you on the phone and it's stuff I could quote in my sleep if you woke me up at 3 am to ask me to define your LATA (please don't ) .... I may be stretching.

Or used to be.

We do reports, follow ups, adjustments, orders that our managers used to do and to keep up (since there's less and less time to do it) often it's on "overlap" in other words if you can't do 5 things at once this job is not for you.

We get more training than most people in the industry but the information overload and sifting through and absorbing the constant change in systems, tools and outright products is like keeping your head above water in a sinking ship.

I must do ok at it because I'm the go-to gal on most things for our entire floor.

Now I may be on the way out the door and it's "Trek? " this and "Trek " that with questions and I know if i stop to help you ... I miss my workout.

There's one rep in particular who feels I'm not a team player to not stop on my time to assist him on my time and acts like it's personal. It's not, I just gotta go

But looking below my desk and seeing cycling shoes and slipping them on during that last call of the day .... makes it all fade away.

[Wahine]

Wow that's an amazing stat, where did you get that? I'm very interested.

My husband is a PhD, was a research scientist at the University of Alberta. He is in excellent health, exercises regularly, eats well and has great longevity genetics. He applied for life insurance and the price was pretty high. When we asked about the breakdown this stat was a big reason for the cost. He looked into it further and found another reference to this stat in an Academic Union Newsletter but he says he never looked the original source up. So sorry, I don't have it for you.

[Grog]

My husband is a PhD, was a research scientist at the University of Alberta. He is in excellent health, exercises regularly, eats well and has great longevity genetics. He applied for life insurance and the price was pretty high. When we asked about the breakdown this stat was a big reason for the cost. He looked into it further and found another reference to this stat in an Academic Union Newsletter but he says he never looked the original source up. So sorry, I don't have it for you.

I have a friend who's an actuarian. He does professional insurance but he should be able to access that sort of data. Very cool!

[Thorn]

I've been reading this thread with interest. About 10 years ago, the smallish company that I worked for got purchased by a large multi-national. I was not, and never will be, a big-company, political thinking employee. However, I made good money at the big company and had great benefits. At the time I thought that if I just hunkered down and put up with it that I'd be able to retire at 55. After about 6 months of long days and too much travel, I realized that at the rate I was going, I wasn't going to live to 55.

I quit and started working for a small company. The transition was not easy, but 7 years later I have a job that I can live with (emphasis on "live"). My hours are just as long, but I set them. I work in the office 3 days a week and from home 2 days a week. When the weather is nice, I ride in the afternoon and work into the evening.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that, yes, too much work is bad, but, perhaps, look further outside of the box. Do you have a job where you can rearrange your hours just a bit? I realize I have the ideal job for that and that some jobs must remain 9 to 5. But, if you have developed a good reputation for hard work and getting the job done, can you, perhaps, suggest alternative scheduling, one where you can fit in a ride, refresh the soul, and still have room to finish the job?

[HappyAnika]

I feel compelled to discourage defining absolutes...for example: "I will never work past 5PM".

Hmm, I don't know if this was aimed at me or not, but I'll clarify anyway. I don't necessarily work in time absolutes. The only absolute for me is that work is not the most important thing in my life. This week I'm working 10 - 12 hour days in preparation for a conference next week, so I'm staying past 5, but that's my decision (or I leave at my usual 4:30 and then work from home). To balance that, I will likely take next Friday off because my work load will allow me to at that point. I just don't like it when other people expect me to stay past 5 even though I get in early every day. If I have advance notice, I can plan around it. Or if its really important I may be able to adjust my personal schedule. Most people I work with would think it unreasonable if I called a meeting at 7:30 am, I think its unreasonable to run meetings past 5 pm.

For me its all about priorities, I stop and ask myself, what's more important here? Work or non-work? Usually the answer is non-work.

"Nobody on their death bed ever said 'I wish I'd spent more time at the office.'"

[Kimmyt]

Well, thanks everyone for the input! And this thread has given me a lot of thinking recently.

So here is some more info. I have been going in earlier than usual lately, around 6 am, thinking I will be able to leave earlier due to this, but it seems that because most people in my group don't get in until about 9, I am always stuck here with 'something that needs to be done' until around 5.

Which, honestly, may come down to me having a problem saying no. See, I like to get my work done, and if I have something on my to-do-list, I will do it so I don't have the stress of it weighing on me.

Yesterday I forced myself to leave work at 4. I didn't ask or tell anyone I was leaving. I felt furtive about it, but in respect realize that I had already worked 10 hours by the time. Nothing was urgent. I left work, and felt okay. I went for a ride, and felt great!

I recently had a meeting with my manager's manager, which is a pretty big deal, but he wanted to know how things were in the department. I think I did a really good job of bringing up the issues of us being overworked, and our hard efforts being unappreciated. We both agreed that we needed to have some sort of under-the-radar comptime thing going on, and I feel that my conversation with him made more of the managers aware of the situation. Perhaps they really just didn't know how hard we were working up here in our little cubbies.

I know that alot of this has to come down to me. Me, opening lines of communication with my manager and my coworkers and not being afraid to express important issues to those people in higher positions than me because if I don't, perhaps no one will, and also it has to come down to me being able to say no. Recently when I realized I was assigned more studies than any one else in our department, as well as doing multiple other things, I brought this up to my manager. I felt like a snitch, at first, because I knew my load might get shifted to another, but I felt it needed to be done. And to my surprise and happiness, I was listened to, and promptly the work load decreased (slightly, but there was a decrease).

Yes, I'm still busy. No, I fully don't expect to be able to leave at 3 every day like in my last job (but then at least here I won't feel stagnated and handicapped). But I do have hope now, that I might be able to *gasp* learn to actually like this job. And learn to balance my life around it.

Thanks again for all of your input, and please feel free to continue the discussion!

K.

I've been reading this thread with interest. About 10 years ago, the smallish company that I worked for got purchased by a large multi-national. I was not, and never will be, a big-company, political thinking employee. However, I made good money at the big company and had great benefits. At the time I thought that if I just hunkered down and put up with it that I'd be able to retire at 55. After about 6 months of long days and too much travel, I realized that at the rate I was going, I wasn't going to live to 55.

I quit and started working for a small company. The transition was not easy, but 7 years later I have a job that I can live with (emphasis on "live"). My hours are just as long, but I set them. I work in the office 3 days a week and from home 2 days a week. When the weather is nice, I ride in the afternoon and work into the evening.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that, yes, too much work is bad, but, perhaps, look further outside of the box. Do you have a job where you can rearrange your hours just a bit? I realize I have the ideal job for that and that some jobs must remain 9 to 5. But, if you have developed a good reputation for hard work and getting the job done, can you, perhaps, suggest alternative scheduling, one where you can fit in a ride, refresh the soul, and still have room to finish the job?

[Mr. Bloom]

Hmm, I don't know if this was aimed at me or not,

It wasn't. I'm sorry if that upset you.