Commuting hazards

[Geonz]

... sort of hijacking this section 'cause this isn't crazy drivers, but commuting - but our city and county planners are making "road improvements" and have decided that they need to find out more about cycling, since they; are building things like bike paths.
So I did a photo essay at http://www.resourceroom.net/pcc/windsorpath1.htm of the ins and outs (we don't have ups and downs here, except for overpasses :-)) of one of our finer bike paths - which has some nice features, but really demonstrates the inherent hazards when you try to stick a path sort of almost next to a road. (It's not as bad as the campus paths, which have egregiously BAD design - bike path through a bus stop, HELLO??)
This makes it easy to say to the planners, council folks, and who have you "click here and see!"

[DeniseGoldberg]

While your city planners may think that bike paths are a good idea, I have a real problem with them. They look like a sidewalk, and a driver has no idea what the "bike path" users are going to do. I don't have a problem with a lane in the road that is designated for bikes, but I do have a problem with separate paths.

I feel much safer in the road, behaving like a vehicle. If I need to make a turn, I make it in the same way that a car would. If I am crossing an intersection, I move further to the left so that a right-turning car will see my intention and won't turn into me. If I were on a path like the one in your photos - well, it appears that I would always need to stop in order to safely get across any cross streets.

I know there are riders out there who prefer bike paths - I'm just not one of them. I apologize in advance if my post is too strong, but it is something that I feel very strongly about.

And Sue - based on your comments, it sounds like you have some of the same problems with the bike paths that I do...

--- Denise

[Geonz]

Ya, you betcha.

I wrestle with the question: how to educate all those folks who think cycling is just a little faster than walking, and just a little more fun... and lump commuting by bike on the road with being an aggressive bike-messenger type, and certainlhy *not* something anyone should feel obligated to encourage.

The bike paths have the added, significant problem (especially the campus ones) of inspiring righteous rage in drivers when cyclists are in the road.

[DeniseGoldberg]

Do you think it's of any use to point them (the city planners, that is) to the vehicle code that states that bicycles are vehicles?

[Trek420]

DeniseGoldberg "I feel much safer in the road, behaving like a vehicle....If I were on a path like the one in your photos - well, it appears that I would always need to stop in order to safely get across any cross streets."

I feel the same way. A recent encounter with another cyclist, middle age gal on Box Store bike, not a sports or fitness rider but somone who rides every day in all weather even this heat got me thinking.

For us speed is our friend. Sure it backfires because peds missjudge our speed and walk smack dab into us but with cars it's our friend.

But the other day I was impatient angry even, with this gal on her box store bike.

How dare she be riding the wrong way in the bike lane

Then I thought "Trek, how is she going to do that left turn on West Tennyson? How is this slow and quite possibly cognitively impaired (we've met when I walk Mae many times, she never seems to remember me or Mae) gal on a Huffy going to speed up, take the lane, speed up, take another lane, speed up get in the middle of the left turn land on West freaking Tennyson? And doesn't she have as much of a right to ride to work as you do?

Yep, she's going to ride her bike "just like walking but a little faster".

On the other hand, there are green space bike paths here that she can use for part of her commute, there is a bike ped overpass...I never see her on that.

What I see on the bike ped overpass if anyone is the occaisional recreational rider. We have the resources, we get the maps and go online. More important I did exploratory rides for months to find the (unsigned, unmarked) bike ped overpass.

If you're the vast majority of cyclists in my area you are not going on a recreational ride to find a safe way to work. The "urban poor cyclists" go up over the freeway overpass same route he/she would drive, even though they can see from there the paralel bike/ped overpass.

For me it's a complex issue and class is part of that.

How do we reach more riders and drivers to "share the road"? Most of these cyclists don't surf TE, or surf anywhere or even visit a LBS. they don't consider themselves cyclists. How do we reach them? I can't yell at all of them If not, the drive will be to have seperate routes/paths.

[Geonz]

They're not vehicles in this state.

We also have a serious disincentive - a cyclist lost a damage suit and the judge words to the effect that "the road wasn't marked for cyclists in any way, so the defendant shouldn't have had to expect cyclists to be on the road." (I *really* wonder about that case.) So, now nobody wants to do anything that's for bikes. The League of ILlinois Bicyclists is lobbying hard all over the place to get folks to see the benefits of planning for bicyclists anyway, with some fortunately positive results.

I, too, have had experiences like yours Trek. One of the things we are trying to do is find ways to educate riders so that at least they know their options.

[Trek420]

A coworker wants to ride and I told him:
The good news about cycling is...it's as easy as riding a bicycle, hence the saying hehe.
The bad news is that doing it well is freakishly difficult
The good news is that the information is out there, LBS. bike clubs, online, coworker who rides.

Most drivers don't get that info
Sadly most bike riders don't either, we few we happy few are a minority, with internet access, a sense of community....

I'm asking how do you reach riders who do not think of themselves as cyclists, who think of themselves as being "somone who does not have a car" to get cycling skills? Also how do you get them to feel they are part of our community and lobby, vote work for improvements?

[DeniseGoldberg]

They're not vehicles in this state.

It is my understanding that bicycles are considered vehicles in all 50 states. From the Illinois vehicle code:

(625 ILCS 5/11‑1502) (from Ch. 95 1/2, par. 11‑1502)
Sec. 11‑1502. Traffic laws apply to persons riding bicycles. Every person riding a bicycle upon a highway shall be granted all of the rights and shall be subject to all of the duties applicable to the driver of a vehicle by this Code, except as to special regulations in this Article XV and except as to those provisions of this Code which by their nature can have no application.
(Source: P.A. 82‑132.)

If it's of any use, here's a link to the bicycle portion of the vehicle code for Illinois: http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ilcs...+Vehicle+Code.

I have to say that in spite of the motor vehicle code stating that bicycles can ride in the road - and can ride 2 abreast - the statute related to left hand turns seems absolutely ridiculous (as in it appears that you are supposed to cross the road while on the right side, then stop and and make your turn.) That's nuts. If you look at this piece of the code, then I can certainly understand your statement that bicycles are not considered vehicles in Illinois. Remind me not to ride there! (Oh wait, I have ridden in Illinois. I spent 4 days there during my cross-country ride. But then again the only city of any size that I went through was Peoria.)

[tulip]

Great discussion! I am a city planner, and a bicycle commuter. About 2/3 of my 14 mile commute is on city streets, and 1/3 is on a multi-use path (MUP). Once I get to the Virginia side of the river, there is no choice but the MUP. I like to have choices! I go through three states twice a day (okay, two states and a colony (DC)), so I really need to know the bike laws in all three (I admit, I don't)

Bike paths (or MUPs) have their place, and I'm happy to have the OPTION of using them. But I would not like it to be mandatory for bicyclists to use the MUPs.

I would like to see more bicycle education taught in drivers ed. I bet most cops don't even know that bicycles are vehicles.

Now, if we could just get more drivers AND bicyclists to drive and ride responsibly, we'd be all set.

I wish TE had a Commuting topic in these forums.

[Geonz]

Well, perhaps we can just nudge Susan to change "crazy drivers" to "commuting and dealing with drivers" or something like that - hey, it's more positive anyway.

Now I'm wracking my brain trying to remember exactly where somebody posted a list of states where bicycles are called something else in some important legal context.

Ironically, "little" legal issues aside, this is a great place for riding. Chicago has a very active cycling culture and significant clout. So, it seems that the better way to improve things is to make sure *more,* not fewer, people are riding (the folks who agree with that court decision already believe that "hey, nobody rides their bikes here anyway!" - and would be perfectly happy if it became a self-fulfilling prophecy).

I decided I"m going to do a "control group" study and do a photo essay of the route I like taking Westbound (no bike paths; a somewhat busy cross-campus thoroughfare). It's got its hazards, too [grammar police pandas, duly note proper apostrophes!] such as busses, but because it's the road, there tend to be *options* and a whole lot less confusion.

[Tater]

I am of the same thought as Trek and Denise, I dislike bike paths. Luckily, Boise has a lot of well marked bike lanes, 'yeild to bikes', 'share the road' signs, plus the Greenbelt MUP (which I don't use). There are many commuters, as well as North Enders and college kids who use the bike as their only means of transportation around here. I think all of those things make for a bit more tolerance from the cagers. I had more problems riding in a smaller town on the east side of the state, than I do here in the most populous city in Idaho. I just wish more people would get off their duff and ride. I'm guessing here, but I'd say that 90% of the cars I saw on the ride in this morning were single occupant.

Oh, and in Idaho, cyclist are considered a slow moving vehicle.

[Geonz]

The good thing here is that it is a University town - and a couple of hospitals, not a whole lot more; and the other big places of employment have a lot of low-paid folks. The Urbana half is notoriously liberal and creative. (There are 3 Xtracycles in Champaign-Urbana - all of 'em in Urbana. THat's proof, right ) It's still got a good dose of the "hopelessly midwetern" culture about it, and even the major bigwigs recognize that when they're trying to compete for folks to come this way, that lifestyle is one of few things we've got over, say, Chicago. And, there are just a LOT of bicycles.
I think I would have mroe trouble in some of the smaller towns, though ("Must be a student! AARGH! Or one of those Urbana Liberals!!! )
I'm encouraged b/c one of the ladies on the list I posted the link to works for the transportation folks, and has forwarded it to the public works' folks and the planners for the three towns around here. What's that quote about being like a flea?

[CorsairMac]

Albuquerque has both and they are both well marked. Except in one instant they don't really share the same "space". They are also in the process right now (Go ABQ) of marking all the bike routes and posting share the road signs and no parking in the bike lane signs! This being said: due to the torrential rains we had while I was out of town, the bike lane in some areas is full of sand and debris and very dangerous to ride in. Several commuters have reported it to the city and as of Fri they still hadn't done anything. Due to it being so unsafe I ride in the car lane just to the left of the white line and have had several cars try to "crowd" me back into "my" lane. I'm praying that New Mexico becomes the next state to pass the 3 foot law.

As for riding them: I've ridden both the bike paths and the bike lanes/routes. Depending on where I"m going and what I"m trying to accomplish, the bike lane/route is my preferred method of travel but I know some people don't like "urban commando" biking!

[Trek420]

Tater "Oh, and in Idaho, cyclist are considered a slow moving vehicle."

I heard (from an ex-Idaho'an) that in Idaho we are considered target practice that it's a harder than average state to ride in.

Surprised me since it's so beeeyoooteeful and outdorsey and such there.

[Tater]

Tater "Oh, and in Idaho, cyclist are considered a slow moving vehicle."

I heard (from an ex-Idaho'an) that in Idaho we are considered target practice that it's a harder than average state to ride in.

Surprised me since it's so beeeyoooteeful and outdorsey and such there.

Depends on what side of the state one rides! Seriously! I have had more close calls with pickups, things thrown at me and such when I lived in Idaho Falls (near the Wyoming border), than I have here in the capital. I have found people here to be so much more tolerant towards cyclists, maybe because there are many more of us out than just the ocassional pair of Mormon missionaries out on their mtn bikes going from house to house.