Just how important is that 1 inch of clearance anyway?

[Nanci]

Is the Trek 2100 the WSD? If so, that's the same as my bike and several others on here. I _love_ that bike, and wouldn't consider it "entry level" at all!!

[mimitabby]

here's the rest:
http://www.rivbike.com/html/bikes_riv5.html


The road bike, for the most part, has devolved into a high tech, uncomfortable machine, and the proof is all around us. Look through any bike magazine or catalogue and you’ll see saddles up to 6 inches higher than the handlebars. It is impossible to be comfortable on such a bike. It forces you to lean forward, putting more weight on your genitals, hands, and arms. The lower part of the drops are out of reach. People ride these bikes with straight, locked-out arms and wake up with aching backs. They endure it, get used to it, or buy recumbents.

[Eden]

The clearance is kind of important - banging yourself on the top tube can be very very uncomfortable (I know this from experience - rode a silly race that involved sharing a single speed coaster bike with 3 team mates and it was waaaay to big for me - help I can't get down!!) and much more likely to happen if you don't have any clearance....., but more important if the bike is that big on you does it fit anywhere else either? If it is too long you'll be robbing yourself of power and creating an uncomfortable riding situation for the rest of your body too.

(though I have to disagree with Riv's fitting philosophy too - I had a shop recommend and put on a longer stem on my old old bike to try to relieve some shoulder pain I was experiencing. Well sitting more upright did nothing for the shoulder and made my back and butt hurt too. They make beautiful bikes, but it annoys me that they seem so adamant that their way is the only way....fit the bike to the person riding it - not the way you like to ride)

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

(though I have to disagree with Riv's fitting philosophy too - I had a shop recommend and put on a longer stem on my old old bike to try to relieve some shoulder pain I was experiencing. Well sitting more upright did nothing for the shoulder and made my back and butt hurt too. They make beautiful bikes, but it annoys me that they seem so adamant that their way is the only way....fit the bike to the person riding it - not the way you like to ride)

Well, there is variation amongst different individuals and their recommendations I guess. Was your old bike a Rivendell, or just a bike that you were trying to improve to ease your shoulder pain? The Riv bikes do have their own special frame proportions that are different from most others. I'll be picking up my new Rivendell Rambouillet by July 29th- my salesman is being very careful about making sure it fits me exactly right before I take it home. They will put the right length stem on while i'm there, before they tape the bars. I'm 5'5" and getting the 54cm (Rivendell measurements). 700c 37 tires.
I'm very hyped, and can't wait!!!

[Eden]

Well, there is variation amongst different individuals and their recommendations I guess. Was your old bike a Rivendell, or just a bike that you were trying to improve to ease your shoulder pain? The Riv bikes do have their own special frame proportions that are different from most others. I'll be picking up my new Rivendell Rambouillet by July 29th- my salesman is being very careful about making sure it fits me exactly right before I take it home. They will put the right length stem on while i'm there, before they tape the bars. I'm 5'5" and getting the 54cm (Rivendell measurements). 700c 37 tires.
I'm very hyped, and can't wait!!!

no the old bike was not a Riv - but personally I am very flexible forwards - much less so backwards (can put my palms flat on the floor, but can't do a back bend to save my life) and am actually much more comfortable in a more agressive position. It sounds backwards, but my neck and shoulder problems went away when I flipped my stem to position my upper body lower. Just goes to show there is no one fit fits all.

[emily_in_nc]

I am 5'2.5" with a 28.5" inseam. My 46 cm Aegis Swift has a rather high bottom bracket, and as a result, I have very little standover (like 1/4"). It has never been a problem for me. The top tube is quite short (19.1") so it fits me perfect from that perspective - and that is probably the most important component of fit, as others have said. I have a 9 cm stem and 650c wheels and don't mind them one bit. I think they're cute. ;-) I have a small amount of toe overlap with them (I wear a size 7 shoe), so I would have a huge amount of toe overlap with a 700c front wheel - that's dangerous. So, that is something to consider when choosing between a 650c and a 700c bike. Since you have smaller feet, it may not be a problem for you.

Also, bike handling will be sacrificed the shorter your stem is. There is a reason that "stock" stems are 10cm. I have read that 9cm-11cm is good, and any shorter or longer can cause problems. I know I experienced some front-end twitchiness and difficulties climbing out of the saddle on my Terry Isis (44 cm frame), which came with a 6.5cm stem.

There are a lot of factors to keep in mind. I do agree with what several posters have said, though, that all things considered, a smaller frame is more desirable than a larger one, if you could potentially ride either. With a smaller frame, you can use a longer stem, for better handling. And, it's slightly lighter. 650c wheels are also lighter than 700s!

Just some random thoughts from past experience with small WSD road bikes...good luck, and let us know what you decide!

Emily

[Triskeliongirl]

I agree with others that the most important component of fit in selecting a frame is the top tube length, and also the seat tube angle. It is obvious why top tube length is important, as it is one of the main determinants of reach. STA is a much overlooked determinant of reach, but an increase of only 1 degree in STA increases the reach by 1 cm, assuming a constant KOP position. A common problem in small sized bikes built around 700cc wheels is the top tubes are proportionally too long to fit the large wheel, hence the reach is too long. So, you need to figure out what reach you need and work back from there. While you can deal with a too long top tube by using a short stem, if the stem gets too short the handling becomes twitchy. I think seat tube length is one of the least important factors in selecting a frame, provided you have enough clearance to comfortably mount, dismount, and not be hurt in a fall. In the old days having too much seat post showing was a problem cuz you couldn't get your stem high enough (the problem rivendell cites), but there are now stems readily available that angle up as an alternative way to get enough height. You can easily swap out seat posts and stems, but you can't change your seat tube angle or top tube length. Also be careful when comparing frame sizes between manufacturers, as bottom bracket heights vary, as do whether the seat tube is being measured from center to center vs center to top. I can fit into bikes ranging from 44-51 cm depending on model. To determine your size in any given bike, you need to look at the published geometry, choose the frame with the reach parameters based on the published STA and TT length that are desirable for you, and then look at the standover height to see if its in a range you can fit with available seat posts and stems. I also look at the published fork trail, as they indicate the handling. I like a trail value in the 5-5.5 range. Many small framed bikes have trail values exceeding 6, which makes for sluggish handling (in an attempt to avoid toe clip overlap, they sometimes put on a fork with large rake or increase the head tube angle, which pushes the front wheel away, but gives awful balance over the bike). So, without even test riding a bike, by looking at these tables I know if it can be made to fit me and how it will handle. BTW, I am 5'4", 30.5" cycling inseam, and I ride a 44 cm (center to center) Terry Titanium Isis with a 73 degree STA, 48 cm TT, 24" front whee, 700cc rear wheel, angled stem that projects ~10 cm forward, and nitto noodel bars. My 44 cm Terry Classic touring bike is set up the same, but with a 49 cm TT and 9 cm stem. I like having the 700cc rear wheel since casettes are designed to give optimal gearing for a 700cc wheel, but the 24" front wheels let me get the reach I want without any compromises in bike handling or toe clip overlap.

[Kathi]

Here's an article that tells how to measure your inseam and determine your saddle height. Use it as a starting point. Most bicycle companies websites will give you the standover height of the bike. Look at the geometry of the frame. You can also compare tt length, headtube height, etc.

http://www.active.com/story.cfm?stor...tegory=cycling

Another great article on how women's fitting,

http://www.active.com/story.cfm?stor...tegory=cycling

[GirlWonder]

Is the Trek 2100 the WSD? If so, that's the same as my bike and several others on here. I _love_ that bike, and wouldn't consider it "entry level" at all!!

First of all...thanks for all of the advice/opinions...you girls are great! Keep them coming

And yes, it's a 2005 2100 WSD...with a discounted price so if I can get it I will...it did "read" nice anyway.

(Some back history, I just did my first duathlon on a mtb a couple of weeks ago and did not like getting passed by all of you roadies ...so I'm hoping to shave 10 minutes off my bike time by riding a fancy new road bike. With only 4 training rides I did 17 miles in about an hour on the mtb....but that was saving my legs a little for the 5K afterwards)

I guess I really dont want a bike that's too big. Is the first shop guy right...if I need to lower the seat "too much" that's bad (again, another issue besides the bar was that he didn't think my feet would reach all the way down on the down stroke).

[mimitabby]

why don't you just make him put some pedals on the bike so you can see whether or not you can reach the bottom of the pedal stroke?

[GirlWonder]

why don't you just make him put some pedals on the bike so you can see whether or not you can reach the bottom of the pedal stroke?

Well, at the time I didn't think of it and thought he just "knew"...but at the next store this weekend I will. He just eyeballed it and felt it was way too long a reach for me. I can also go back there as well....maybe he was just a new guy....

[Cassandra_Cain]

I know bike fitting can be tricky and there are a million theories. My experience with it though is that the method of using the top-tube height as the primary factor in fit - isn't right.

Ask yourself this question - during your average ride, what will be more important - your body/shoulder/torso/hand/pedal position or being able to stand over the top tube? How often are you going to put both feet down and straddle the bike down the exact center of your lower body?

For me anyway, I'd rather have a bike that fits my upper body and pedal position first, and have the top tube height be a secondary factor. Remember that this (height) is also an issue with motorcycles and many people happily ride with no problem even when the seat (or top tube in a bicycle's case) is a bit high.

[DebW]

If you have a bare 1 inch of standover clearance, you'll be OK mounting and dismounting on flat ground. It's on hills where that clearance gets smaller and
maybe your body and the top tube meet. For years I rode a bike with a 23 inch
seat tube, and my inseam is 32 inches, leaving me with about 1/2 inch of clearance.
You can learn to be careful on the hills and tip the bike further to mount and dismount,
but occassionally you'll make contact. For me it was never hard contact or enough
to cause real pain. I suggest taking the bike to a steep hill and practicing there to see if you have really enough clearance. Try both with 2 feet on the ground and with one foot on pedal/one foot on ground. Of course, other frame dimensions are important too, and you might be prepared to compomise down to 1/2 inch of standover to get the other dimension right if you are confident in the dismounting on hills.

[caligurl]

i had less than 1" of clearance with my dolce... but i also had to shorten the stem way back... cuz we found out the bike was too long...

what i've been reading lately.. is to buy the SMALLEST that bike that fits... then add a longer stem if you need it... or at least.. that's what they claim the big guys do????

[mimitabby]

i had less than 1" of clearance with my dolce... but i also had to shorten the stem way back... cuz we found out the bike was too long...

what i've been reading lately.. is to buy the SMALLEST that bike that fits... then add a longer stem if you need it... or at least.. that's what they claim the big guys do????

how did they shorten the stem? Do you mean the top tube?